Nearly 20 years ago, I was involved with a fascinating startup based around geo-targeted digital contesting married with radio stations that featured prominent personalities. It was a cool concept because web advertising was still very embryonic. It was pre-Google AdWords, smartphones didn’t exist, and Mark Zuckerberg was still in high school.
At the time, we were pitching a fast-rising web company that you have all heard of and used. The idea was to use the power of local morning radio to drive traffic to this site. They were just a startup, attempting to figure out their media and marketing strategy, and our team was very much in the hunt to help them build awareness and web traffic.
Several people in this fledgling startup were very high on us, including the CEO. But the final hurdle was to get a thumbs up from their New York City-based ad agency. Our entire team flew to the Big Apple for our meeting. As we sat in one of the most spacious conference rooms I’d ever seen, populated by high-power agency executives, we fired up our PowerPoint, and rolled out our plan that heavily involved popular, female-targeted Adult Contemporary morning shows in key media markets to get the word out about this cool website.
As we got up a head of steam, a question arose from one of the higher-ups in the agency:
“Morning radio, you say? Isn’t that just a bunch of DJs running around wearing underwear on their heads?”
The room went silent, and the meeting essentially ended with that comment. As we scrambled to try to counter that perception with anecdotal and statistical evidence about the value of 
morning/personality radio, we were losing altitude quickly.
The agency’s impression of morning DJs was akin to the barker at a cheap circus carnival – a low-rate, zany form of juvenile entertainment clearly thought to be well below the image of their valuable up-and-coming web startup.
So, let’s fast-forward and think about the perception of radio all these years later. Have we made progress and changed perceptions? Has morning radio made itself a more vital part of the media tool kit. And have our DJs grown up?
The answer is, “Maybe not.”
Personality radio’s perception problems may have hit a low point last year when that Taylor Swift groping imbroglio court case went down with involving KYGO Denver DJ, David Mueller. A highly visible trial did nothing to improve radio’s personality image. And Swift’s appearance in the courtroom and ultimate victory only helped to cement another incident of a DJ behaving badly.
(It may have also started the #MeToo movement. How many women were inspired by Swift’s resolve and courage to tell their own story? Her case with Mueller was resolved last August. The first Harvey Weinstein outing didn’t occur until weeks later in October.)
And now we segue to Super Bowl Week – an exciting time for denizens of Boston, Philadelphia, and of course, Minneapolis/St. Paul. Yet, radio’s first big headline involved WEEI personality, Alex Reimer, insulted Hall of Fame quarterback Tom Brady’s 5-year-old daughter, Vivian, calling her “an annoying little pissant.”
There are a lot of Tom Brady haters outside of Boston and Ann Arbor, but somehow Reimer managed to turn him into a sympathetic figure.
And then just a couple of days ago there was a sophomoric dustup on “Radio Row” in Minneapolis involving WIP/Philadelphia’ Seth Payne and former WIP host, Josh Innes (now with KBME/Houston). This little incident was just another chapter in a “Who cares?” dispute between a couple of sports talkers that has been festering for years.
And like the debacle about Tom Brady, this one also went national for the word to see how radio puts its best foot forward for the most-watched live TV sporting event every year.
A story I remember very well that may or may not be a bit of urban legend. It involved a conversation that Mel Karmazin had with a radio executive from another company about their big morning radio talent during those days when FCC fines were getting tossed around like parking tickets. Howard Stern was in his commercial radio prime at this time, and the other CEO had his own “shock jock” making a lot of noise and racking up impressive ratings.
The story goes that Mel said to his counterpart:
“You know the difference between your guy and my guy? My guy knows where the line is.”
Karmazin was right, of course. Howard had that instinctive inner-alarm that almost always kept him out of severe trouble. This other jock? 
It was one hot mess after another.
And that story hit home for me during this Super Bowl run-up, a time when radio stations in Boston, Philly, and around the country should be having an exciting week, hopefully doing great radio. Instead, radio made headlines, but for all the wrong reasons.
I’m sorry, but the job of station management is to make sure these things don’t happen; that radio stations don’t embarrass their employees, their ownership, their teams, and their towns.
Ironically, when a professional or college player gets caught up in the web of scandals, these are the same guys opening up the phones, pouring on the kerosene, and laughing about the misfortunes of young athletes who should know better.
Now some of you will try to make the case these little radio skirmishes will turn out to be ratings spikes – that sports fans and others were motivated to tune in the next day to find out what happened. And in fact, that may turn out to be true.
But radio’s issues have less to do with the January Week 3 PPM release than they do with the long term, incalculable perceptual damage to radio has a media player. Whether it’s the listening audience, community leaders, advertisers, or the teams themselves – radio is the loser when it comports itself like a cheap side show rather than the classy medium that it can be.
And the last thing media buyers and planners need is another reason to bypass radio, and go with the myriad of other choices they have.
So, what’s the penalty for “un-radiolike conduct?”
When Pierre Bouvard worked for Coleman Research, one of his favorite sayings was:
“Perceptions are like glaciers – slow to form and slow to melt.”
For an industry fighting for every dollar and every ounce of respectability, you tell me who are the annoying little pissants.
I’ll be appearing on a panel at this year’s Talk Show Boot Camp – “Tech For Talk,” featuring Steve Goldstein, Carolyn Gilbert, and Leigh Jacobs. The conference takes place March 8-9 in Dallas Info here.
Jacobs Media has consistently walked the walk in the digital space, providing insights and guidance through its well-read national Techsurveys.
In 2008, jacapps was launched - a mobile apps company that has designed and built more than 1,300 apps for both the Apple and Android platforms. In 2013, the DASH Conference was created - a mashup of radio and automotive, designed to foster better understanding of the "connected car" and its impact.
Along with providing the creative and intellectual direction for the company, Fred consults many of Jacobs Media's commercial and public radio clients, in addition to media brands looking to thrive in the rapidly changing tech environment.
Fred was inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame in 2018.
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Absolutely agree with you Fred. We need to be more responsible and we need to think about serving an audience and a community. You don’t have to do crazy stunts to get ratings. A funny thing happens when you focus on giving the audience what they want … you get the ratings that you want.
Mike, it seems to work that way. You are a very respected voice in this industry and your words are important in this conversation. Thanks for commenting.
More alchemy from you, Fred Jacobs, spinning radio insight into gold.
Talent like Stern, who is sensitive to the “line”, or, my former partner Henry Del Toro, who often crossed the line, but possessed the ability to not only recover from his on-air misdeeds- but somehow generate more endearment from the community, is rare.
It is, indeed, Tommy. At his heart, Henry was a sympathetic characters AND did enough good deeds to counter-balance his less-than-great decisions. Thanks for the kind words and for taking the time to comment.
Bad conduct on radio has always been an annoying thing to me. In the nearly 48 years I have been in this business, I have kept to one simple rule: If a parent is in a vehicle with young children, don’t say or do anything that will force them to answer an uncomfortable question from their kids.
My “Top 40” approach to Sports Radio is working beautifully. I never have to even come close to the proverbial line.
Bob, thanks for this. Every personality is different, of course. But it just seems so unnecessary (and dated) at this point to sound like a “shock jock” from the ’90s. I worry that its real impact is detrimental to the rep of the radio business. Congrats on a long radio run, Bob, and thanks for commenting.
Agree with the points but feel like several contributing factors are being overlooked: 1. PD’s and GM’s now in charge of MULTIPLE stations/formats/and stables of talent. Less one on one time to manage contributes to the problem. 2. “Ratings at ALL costs” mentality 3. Trying to create viral moments as opposed to brand longevity. Personalities definitely have to be accountable but idiotic behavior doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
Good points all, Mike. It’s not just the activity in the air studio that needs to be scrutinized. This is the prize you pay for distracted PDs & GMs – not being able to spend enough time and coaching with talent. As for the ratings piece of the conversation, I totally get it, but in today’s environment, it’s incredibly shortsighted. Thanks for the perspective.
As you know better than all, it’s proper coaching that wins the game. And, when management doesn’t position experienced coaches, they get what they pay for (John Arbuckle, Yuletide Banquet Coffee) plus the guilty are deported over and out. Thanks, Fred. Go Pats, TB12Dad, Wild Bill & THE Gronk!
If hosts aren’t capable of thinking before they act then these issues will continue to happen. Yes, great coaching is a must, but common sense is also a factor and young hosts like Reimer need to understand the incredible platform that they have before they venture out on that limb. When you’re just starting out, saying outlandish things, especially about a major station partner, is not a path to the top.
Nice to hear from someone who actually knows about this format (unlike me). But as you point out, Jason, these are common sense traits you have – or you don’t. That alleged Mel Karmazin quote (it SOUNDS like something he’d say) has stayed with me for a long time. Thanks for the comment.
Wow – I have never read a bunch of more clueless claptrap in my life. We are talking about a “line” of respectability in a country that elected a p*ssy grabber President and where a Reality Show TV Family created and distributed a sex tape to become MULTI Millionaires and post naked pictures to “break” the Internet.
The Reality Show Con Artist became President largely on the fact that he got BILLIONS in free publicity for every inane and inflammatory comment he made. HRC spoke too much like a “politician” so she didn’t receive coverage (except for the fact that she killed Vince Foster with a candlestick in the conservatory) and was tuned out by the general public. Attention is the most valuable currency of the 21st century and it is difficult to get and to keep. If you can’t get it, you are NOT winning.
“Morning radio, you say? Isn’t that just a bunch of DJs running around wearing underwear on their heads?”
Yes, sadly it frequently is because as an industry we watch as TV, Social media, etc. get the WWF world of showbiz. And we ARE in the Show Business. But of course radio is still afraid to upset ANYONE EVER. God forbid our morning show host does something memorable and gets a complaint from an upset born again or other nut case. What if they call an advertiser and embarrass us? We couldn’t possibly point out to the advertiser that the “shock jock” the listener is referring to got the upset listener to remember their name, find a phone number and make a call all for the lowest cost per point of any medium.
Personality radio’s perception problems may have hit a low point last year when that Taylor Swift groping imbroglio court case went down with involving KYGO Denver DJ, David Mueller. A highly visible trial did nothing to improve radio’s personality image.
Yes, radio is responsible for every pervert that we hire, now at close to minimum wage, while TV proudly blasts the insanely juvenile and staged Maury Povich, Jerry Springer, Steve Wilko show for decades. How low can radio go? Maybe Mr. Mueller should go to FOX where he would be paid Millions for his debauchery. Or maybe he should run for President.
Oh yes, Alex Reimer, insulted Hall of Fame quarterback Tom Brady’s 5-year-old daughter, Vivian, calling her “an annoying little pissant.” First off – the context of the remark about Tom Brady’s daughter was that she was ACTING on a “Reality Show” about the family like a “pissant” which is exactly the point. She was ACTING that way to gain attention and our boy accurately pointed that out. In fact, that is OUR job in a crowded Media environment is to ACT as well and stand out. Again, that Show Biz thing. Maybe it is unfair of me to think “Reality Shows “are staged. After all, I’m sure the “Real Housewives” of whatever town turn over tables in Restaurants when there are no cameras around. This is the environment we are competing in and it does no good for us to be Leave it to Beaver in a Game of Thrones world.
My guy knows where the line is.”
A line? The “line” is constantly changing. Fifty year s ago it was shocking if Lucy was seen in the same bed as Ricky. Now, have you seen any prime time show? It is ALL innuendo that would make our grandmother’s faint. And frankly, Howard Stern did MORE to push that line that anyone in the business including getting fired from most of his jobs till he had to go to satellite for a lot of money and to say the F word to his heart’s content.
And have our DJs grown up? The answer is, “Maybe not.”
The answer should be “hopefully not.” Grownups are no fun.
For an industry fighting for every dollar and every ounce of respectability….
WE are fighting for “respectability? Again, I’ll point to prime time TV, every reality show in history and have you ever seen daytime TV? They ply people with alcohol so they get in fights! Did I miss the “respectably” of the content on Facebook? Since Facebook is eating our lunch, I wonder how your famous agency in New York feels being next to F you fights and Russian propaganda on their platform.
We are fighting for every dollar and this article and the comments only prove to me that Radio people are like Liberals who have no understanding of the environment that we live and compete in so we will always be the losers.
But hey – maybe I should be glad this B minus student can make a living for thirty five years in an industry for C students (grading on the curve).
First, I appreciate the lengthy and thoughtful response. I would have appreciated it even more had you left your name as everyone else has who has commented on this post. Throughout the course of the last 14 years, this blog has made it a point to require a name before a beefy comment like yours gets approved. I think your comment is an important one, deserving a response, so I’m posting it anyway.
If I’m hearing you loud and clear, you’re saying there’s so much depravity and crap in the media that radio shouldn’t be held to a different – or a higher standard. After all, Jerry Springer or “The Bachelor” don’t apologize for what they air. You know what you’re getting if you buy ads on these shows.
But local radio is different. It doesn’t have the insulation that a network show has. The station is located in the same neighborhood as the community it serves, and the businesses that agree to advertise on the station. You have to look these people in the eye. So maybe that’s why WEEI had to look Tom Brady in the eye, apologize, and deal with Reimer – or risk losing their star quarterback who helps them get attention and ratings week in and week out.
It’s actually possible to get attention without airing pure crap. Great radio doesn’t have to be underwear on the head or worse. But you don’t have to explain that to people who enjoy quality morning shows, public radio, and some of the truly good stuff you can still hear on AM and FM stations. Not to mention “SNL” and TV shows that are getting attention without throwing chairs.
You may think it’s all about attention – and that’s a factor to be sure.
But it’s also all about revenue. And all the attention and ratings in the world aren’t going to rescue a station that no one wants to buy. Or worse, ends up on a “no buy zone” list. Radio stations across the country – in big markets and small markets and in all formats – are struggling to effectively market their products. These kinds of incidents just make it that much more difficult.
It’s not about radio apologizing for everything. It’s about being smart. And entertaining.
As for your political ranting that echo through this comment, that certainly was not where I was headed. What our current President is doing or has done means nothing in the big picture of pop culture or the public taste. This blog isn’t going to end up like Facebook, and I promise to delete comments that get too intensely political.
Again, I appreciate the comment. If I’ve missed the boat here, I’m sure others will jump into the fray and let me know about it.
And next time, I’d appreciate it if you have the stones to include your name.
There’s something being missed here, entirely. The exact line crossed by Alex Reimer. It was his target. A child. Of 4.
Bob Foster briefly touched on the sensitivity towards a child in a car listening with an adult. That’s a policy I adhered to, do mornings in LA, San Jose and San Francisco. Not to say I didn’t occasionally dangle my toes over the line and drop an inuendo off the edge. It’s simple. Never attack someone’s child.
At the peak of Howard Stern’s syndicated popularity, a consult for our station told me the owner group CEO asked him if he could get me to be a little dirtier. The next consultant brought in a schlock (pun intended) jock who was cleaning his clients clock in another market. This Howard Stern in a cheap suit wound up being fired when he made lewd comments about Girl Scouts in his studio during the annual cookie sales.
Rude behavior has been normalized. If if “Pissant” had been used to describe Tom Brady or Gisele Bündchen, it would not have upset anyone besides Patriot fans.
Children are not a smart target. Ever.
Paul, appreciate your “behind the mic” perspective. It’s one thing for consultants like me to pontificate about what personalities should/should not do. It’s a whole other thing when you’re in that studio, in real time, and you have that ongoing pressure to walk the line, stay balanced, and keep it all straight.
Great article, as usual, Fred. Not quite sure why any show would do something that plays into the stereotype. Listeners have changed and we must, too. The question is less what can we do to cause a crazy commotion than these: how do we connect and entertain those who do choose us so they come back the next day? And, how do we get out and get involved in our market so new people find us? I ask every show I work with what gets us in trouble? For all, being “wacky DJs” makes that list – so we remind them to not develop that image and we’ll be in a better spot for growth. Evolution serves those best able to adapt. Thanks for another on-point blog.
Steve, your opinions and thoughts carry a lot of weight. As someone who’s involved in stations with shows that you’re coaching, I’m always impressed by how you continue to take the entertainment high road, building personality brands that last. Thanks for taking the time to comment.