Can you say déjà vu?
Way back in the mid-‘80s when I got Classic Rock going in markets from Los Angeles to Chicago to Detroit to D.C., the death knell for the format came quickly. For most Classic Rock startups at that time, the run-up was spectacular – and quick. But oftentimes, in just a few books, the ratings started to settle. In a few cases, it was worse than that.
And that’s when the rumors of Classic Rock’s impending demise took flight. I spent a lot of time defending the format, the genre, and the concept – often up against “AOR” consultants of that era who just couldn’t come to grips with the notion that large segments of their audience simply enjoyed rock from the ‘60s and ‘70s more than they did Ratt, Mister Mister, and White Lion. Similarly, many label people were in denial about the power of music that was a couple of decades old and why so many fans preferred it over their new releases.
Throughout the ensuing quarter century, Classic Rock has gained a great deal of respectability – and rightfully so. There are now more Classic Rock (and Classic Hits) radio stations than Mainstream/Active, Alternative, and Triple A outlets combined. And as recently as this past spring, the Arbitron numbers confirmed that Classic Rock ratings are not only stable – they’ve been growing.
This Billboard article back in 1986 summed up the format’s progress after just 18 months by noting that while Classic Rock was thriving, “some insist it’s just a passing phase.” There was a lot of that in the early years of the format.
And so Bob Lefsetz’s think piece the other day resonated for me. And it earned a fair amount of attention in radio circles, filling my Twitter account with queries about its efficacy, my response, and what’s really going on with the format. His great opening line – “Classic rock is dead” – was an attention getter, and kicked off a smart diatribe about how the world of music and the different generations that love it have changed. Bob’s writing is typically provocative, smart, and almost always forces you to emote – one way or the other. And for many people who read the piece (actually titled “Roar”), it makes you think.
However, Bob’s opening salvo has nothing to do with a radio format and everything to do with the ethos and emotion that the artists we now call “Classic Rockers” brought to the table decades ago. He points out that with few exceptions (and he notably singles out the incredibly talented Lorde’s single “Royals”), success in the music world today has been redefined. It’s now almost entirely about the song, while the character, politics, and fabric of the performer who creates it is as disposable and meaningless as most of the music itself.
That’s not new to those who have embraced Classic Rock – whether they are Baby Boomers, or this amazing – and growing – group of 25-34s who have apparently rejected everyone from 50 Cent to Lady Gaga to Mumford & Sons – and have “discovered” that the music their parents adored when songs actually reflected the world around us was pretty damn great.
While much of this has been blurred over the decades – clouded by video music discovery starting with MTV and exploding with YouTube – the fact that Classic Rock concerts continue to be commercially successful speaks to both the lasting power of the music and the ways in which the artists resonated with the times in which they rose to power.
Yet, most Classic Rockers have failed to score “new” hits of any kind in the ‘90s and beyond. And that shouldn’t surprise us. Sadly and predictably, those are the moments when concertgoers stream to the concession stands and the restrooms. While Lefsetz criticizes Paul McCartney’s new release, aptly titled “New,” it is actually a pretty good song (as Alan Cross notes, in a “Penny Lane” way”). And Lefsetz begrudgingly acknowledges that at the end of his post.
>EMAIL RECIPIENTS: CLICK HERE FOR PAUL MCCARTNEY’S SINGLE, “NEW”<
And let’s face it, like Brett Favre or Manny Ramirez, there comes a time when just about every superstar finally stops producing at a very high level. Whether that’s the Who, Garth Brooks, or Madonna, the performers you grew up with eventually settle into a comfortable place with their core audiences and ride out into the sunset. A well-planned career path with a great manager (think Irving Azoff) can have a very lucrative happy autumn for popular music stars. In Sir Paul’s case (along with performers like the Eagles or Springsteen), their live performances are still strong enough that audiences continue to pay mega-bucks to see them and go back to a happier place in time and in their lives for 90 minutes on a summer night.
So Classic Rock music – as well as the format – is anything but dead. But the system that brought us this music has been forever altered by the times and the promotional and marketing engine that is broken, no longer effectively exposing music from the labels through radio and to the masses.
It doesn’t have to be that way.
Radio could play a major role – albeit a different one that it used to play – in the curation and exposure of new music. But it is so busy playing it safe – playing defense – that it is has lost sight of its unique ability to provide perspective, context, and fun to music that is new and emerging. I’ve never understood the “prevent defense” in football. It is supposed to stop the opposition from scoring. But in fact, it almost always allows the other team to move the ball down the field. Once in the “red zone,” anything can happen. It is often a dumb strategy that backfires more than it works.
That’s essentially how radio has played the game against Internet pure-plays since streaming first became a new way to enjoy audio. Rather than continue to play a lead role and take advantage of its ubiquitous – and free – position in the musical ecosphere, radio hunkered down, played it close to the musical vest, and has become less and less relevant from a musical exposure point of view every year. The advent of PPM has only exacerbated the problem, convincing many radio stations and groups that newness is the catalyst for meter migration.
In reality, boredom is often the problem.
It doesn’t have to be that way.
Radio is the only medium that has the ability to take the consumer by the hand, localize and contextualize the music, and provide ways for new audiences to experience it that has nothing to do with bits and bytes.
When I first tried to get Classic Rock off the ground in the early ‘80s, I targeted “dog FM stations” – total losers in medium and larger markets that were well out of the top 20. This was before consolidation and cluster strategies. And in fact, my first taker was a Class A FM in Charlotte (Shar- LOT), Michigan, that was one of four AC stations in and around the Lansing market. Suffice it to say, it was a loser – just the kind of station that helped me grow my business with a hot “new” format throughout the rest of that decade.
But in today’s world, “dogs” look different. They are often that fourth station in the cluster – the one that ownership simply can’t get off the ground. And there’s at least one – if not more than one – in every market. Why would it be so odd or hare-brained for one station in most of the Top 50 markets (OK, we’ll give L.A. and New York a pass because nothing innovative ever starts in either place) to commit itself to playing nothing but new stuff – no oldies, no classics, no recurrents? Do most major and medium markets really need another Hot AC, a new Variety Hits station, or even (gulp!) another Classic Hits outlet?
Think about a format that exposes Indie, Alternative, Country, and everything in between because the fact is that format walls are about as meaningful in today’s entertainment world as boom boxes. Millennials aren’t concerned about silos, format purity, and modality. They just want to hear great new music in a way they can personalize, share, and converse about. Radio could be at the center of that conversation because the time and effort it takes to navigate Spotify or YouTube can be used for other endeavors. Like finding employment.
Like the McCartney song, you could even call it “New.” Because it truly would be.
So I realize I’ve taken the Lefsetz post on a hard left turn. But that’s OK. He does the same thing, and the fact is, it’s not Classic Rock that’s dead, but the spirit that made the music possible that’s on life support. Thanks, Bob, for kicking us all in the ass.
Radio could breathe some life into this tired business model.
It’s time to start throwing passes down the field.
Jacobs Media has consistently walked the walk in the digital space, providing insights and guidance through its well-read national Techsurveys.
In 2008, jacapps was launched - a mobile apps company that has designed and built more than 1,300 apps for both the Apple and Android platforms. In 2013, the DASH Conference was created - a mashup of radio and automotive, designed to foster better understanding of the "connected car" and its impact.
Along with providing the creative and intellectual direction for the company, Fred consults many of Jacobs Media's commercial and public radio clients, in addition to media brands looking to thrive in the rapidly changing tech environment.
Fred was inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame in 2018.
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Maybe it’s time for classic rock stations to realize that there were more than 200 songs written during the 60’s and 70’s. I’ve listened to classic rock almost exclusively for 25 years and in that entire time unless a station reaches for a “deep track” you never hear anything but the same three to five songs from each artist that every other classic rock station is playing.
Am I to understand that nobody wants to hear anything but “Another Brick in the Wall Part II” and “Money” by Pink Floyd? Or that The Beatles (who have an album with 27 number one hits) only have five songs that people listening to the radio want to hear? Instead of classic rock stations reaching into the 80’s and filling with Bon Jovi and Def Leopard, maybe they should surprise listeners and reach a little deeper into the catalogs of the artists they already play. A lot of their listeners have been listening to this music for 40 or 50 years, something tells me they are just as bored with it as I am.
Cliff, the ratings indicate that the format is generally on track, but you voice the most common complaint – and one that dogs stations whether they play 400 songs or 1,000. The sad truth is that once we get beyond a certain point where pretty much everyone agrees that these all pretty much great songs, things get sketchier. I have concluded that much of these perceptions are dependent upon what you were listening to in your dorm room (or the equivalent) when you were a teenager. If it was “Thick As A Brick,” you are convinced that your Classic Rock station is idiotic for not going 6 deep on the album. And on it goes. Classic Rock is very much a shared experience, but unfortunately for us programmers, those experiences differ greatly by individual and by market. I know that’s not a satisfying answer but it’s the basis of why many stations sound like they do.
Does ratings pressure push the playlist even farther down in many markets? Absolutely, and a tough book (or month) usually results in a narrower base of songs.
Thanks for the passionate opinion, and I welcome other responses – in agreement with me – or not.
Honestly, I get it. It’s a ratings game and there is a big difference between the distilled list of songs that everyone likes (backed up by ratings and focus groups) and the list of songs that I am personally sure that everyone likes because all these songs are great, right?
But with that being said, there are four classic rock stations in my market and if they didn’t do station identification every once in a while I’m not sure I could tell the difference between them. How long is that going to be a winning strategy when I can open up Pandora or Spotify or Google Music and listen to a mix that is exactly what I want to listen to? I mean even my dad (who has been listening to classic rock a lot longer than I have) only listens to Spotify any more. And the music that is showing up on his music feed on Facebook is a lot deeper than what any of the local classic rock stations are playing. I’m just not sure it’s a sustainable long term strategy.
Also, everyone knows the deepest you can go on “Thick as a Brick” is two songs. And that is probably only if you have the record. 🙂
Thanks for the follow-up. In reference to the nondescript Classic Rock glut of stations, that is the essence of the problem. There certainly ought to be go-to jocks at least at one of these stations and/or a local connection to the music and the community. And I probably should have referenced “Who’s Next.” 🙂
Now you are talking. There are at least six songs on that album that should be on the radio. 😉
Fred, have you ever uttered the words ” Please to meet you, hope you guess my name.”?
Please allow me to introduce myself
I’m a man of wealth and taste
These songs have been around for a long, long time
New songs just get in the way
And I was ’round when John Lennon
Had his moment of unending Fame
Made damn sure that DJ’s
had no say and sealed the Fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around for the 70s
When I saw it was a time for a change
I added Queen and the Eagles to the very short list of play
anyone other than Robert Plant screamed in vain
I made sure that new quality tanked
no one heard it
While my blitzkrieg raged
And Tom Petty stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While Springsteen and Queen
repeated 4 songs for three decades
The gods I made
I shouted out,
“Who killed the Music?”
When after all
It was me, Fred Jacobs
Let me please introduce myself
I’m a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for the next Dylan
While Like a Rolling Stone Played and Played
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what’s confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every new artist is a criminal
And Lynyrd Skynyrd are the saints
It was airplay that led to you hearing them
in the first place
Just call Fred, Lucifer
because we used to have music now we just have constraints
So if you meet me
have some Beatles
Have some U2, and Tom Petty
Use all your AC DC and Zeppelin ( and Then some more zeppelin and then some more zeppelin, and then some more)
I’ll lay your ears to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But what’s puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
Woo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
And I’m Free- Free Falling
And She’s Bu-u-u-ying a Stairway to Heaven
Dan, very clever. I have no apologies for creating, championing, and growing the Classic Rock format. It has made a lot of radio people a lot of money, employed thousands of people for decades, and made millions of fans happy. What I did not realize at the outset was that many in the label community would blame me and the format for new rock’s failure to capture the imagination of the public. Maybe you’ve forgotten (or you don’t know) that my company works for many, many Mainstream Rock and Alternative stations. We’ve been at the forefront of both those formats, where new music is appreciated, celebrated, and given every chance to succeed. I have a philosophy that great music (art, movies, television) finds a way of rising to the top and reaching an audience. Any failure by artists and labels to establish their brands in the past three decades is their responsibility – not a radio format’s.
I have read pretty much this whole blog of testament, so I apologize up front from what seems that I realize I’m responding to a 3 year viewpoint.
I’m going to take a stand of what you all hate and seem to implode of The Classic Rock format. I love Classic Rock radio the way it is, and yes I like Meat Loaf(the food and the artist). One of your replies compared the format to Comfort Food, and he’s right. Just look around comfort food has made America FAT and so has the format. There’s a reason why people spend their hard earned money on a concert ticket, They want to hear the music that took them back to a time when life was more fun, care-free, and we all remember what we were doing (well most of us) when you hear a familiar song that was played over and over and we learned the lyrics. Something that a typical 50 plus guy don’t have the time for today. We learn music when we’re teenagers, the learning years I call them.
I am a morning Radio guy who also happens to Host a lot of weddings and special events throughout the years. I always ask myself “why in the world do I have to play Old Time Rock-n-Roll”, I don’t know, but why does it work every time?Granted the placement and flow have a lot to do with a lot of it.
I also think that a lot of Classic Rock artists get it now(they didn’t a decade plus ago) People want their favorite artist to play their fans favorite songs…..PERIOD. I understand totally why DJ’s, Radio, and the artists themselves are tired of doing the same ol, same ol. But any smart manager would tell you NEW doesn’t necessarily mean $$$. It’s kind of like any actor or actress that made it big in a blockbuster and they become content and bored and decide to do something on the side and its a bust. As much as I appreciate the upgrade of Meat Loaf to Gourmet style, I certainly don’t want it everyday.
Analogies aside. Today we see everyone out on tour. Doing yes a mix of old and new, but mostly OLD because thats what people pay to see to “take them back” concept. Gene Simmons of KISS was right I feel with his quote, ” If you weren’t big before 1990 you will never make as much money as they did” . Now obviously I can think of a few bands that maybe have but he is still spot on with the concept, and they’re still at it, like a few others. Hardly anyone buys music in general anymore. They Stream, and share everything. Hence which is why everyone is touring.
I heard a great Classic Rock station on Tune-in last year that made me listen. I’m 52 and I have to admit the playlist had me hooked. It was a 25 year deal 1970 to 1995. As much as I like the Beatles, Stones, and The Doors. The station played only the 70’s of those groups and frankly I heard more Wings than I heard Beatles as “timeless” as they are. To me this is how you refresh the format. I also heard classic stuff in the 90’s without going overboard. Everything from Dave Matthews, G-N-R, Metallica, Alice in Chains, and the Foo Fighters that again fit my genre’.
I say keep with what works by refreshing the energy and make people sing there way to work. Lord knows most people hate going to work anymore and they need their music for release. With technology and social media biting at our heels embrace the fact that everyone wants to be a program director now NOT a DJ. I remember the days when everyone wanted to be a DJ. those days are done. Now they have become their own SPOTIFY Program Director. That my friend is the true competitor. Not the station down the street that plays deep cuts 24/7.
Harry, I won’t comment on what you’ve written here because I think it stands on its own. And as you point out, my post was written nearly three years ago. Thanks for finding it, because I think it underscores the passion consumers and radio people have for the format and the music. Thanks for taking the time.
It’s kind of hard to go 6 cuts deep on thick as a brick, as there are only two cuts…
I’m not sure what the point of Lefsetz’s piece actually was, but I always wonder why people try to make Classic Rock something it isn’t and never was.
Fred is right, double the playlist and you’ll still get the same complaints about repetition. Classic Rock isn’t about pushing the envelope, its comfort food for aging ears and the ratings suggest that those aging ears still love it. This is like criticizing people for cooking and eating meatloaf. FWIW, I personally wish that the format included much more music from 1988-2000, but if the world doesn’t agree, so be it. I certainly don’t advocate spoiling the format for its partisans and the stations making money doing it.
I always thought that correctly executed, fill records could really impact any gold based format – maybe more creative and aggressive of them would freshen Classic Rock’s sound – or maybe not. Or maybe the way to freshen up classic rock is between the records – I can create that classic rock station that starts with Van Halen and Bon Jovi and ends with Staind on Pandora – but it won’t be any fun and I’d endure less than ideal music to listen to a classic rock station that was.
I just don’t understand why comparisons to new music plague classic rock – its a proven winner that has sustained itself with surprisingly few changes for over 25 years.
WPLS – “The Playlist” is an interesting idea. Almost an adult hits format for Millennials. Formats are hard to invent and few new ones succeed, but that #4 station in the cluster has nowhere to go but up and something different designed to attract 20-somethings to radio would be a good thing – as would some research to under-gird the project.
I doubt it will happen though unless someone can shroud it in a cost savings strategy to be trumpeted in the next quarterly analyst call.
Bob, as someone who enjoyed the Classic Rock benefits – and who supported the format very well – your comments are much appreciated. And thanks also for giving my dumb format idea a great name. The Playlist is very much in keeping with the passions of how music is put together today. Appreciate the time and the comment.
There’s two problems with the Classic Rock format that simply gets my goat, if I had a goat to get. ONE: The bicycling of songs in / out of rotation. I have not heard a station do this right for many years. Because of the limited number of songs available, a constant massaging of the rotations will keep the format sounding fresh, but, that takes more work on a weekly basis than the PD/MD usually has. Unfortunately, the format suffers because of the other 3-4 formats he/she must keep tabs on throughout the week. A great Classic Rock PD/MD must think like a stoner, and act like a tomahawk cruise missile. TWO: Nothing is a more of a tune-out than a 20 something telling me why Paul is not wearing shoes on the Abbey Road album. If you didn’t live through the era, and are trying to sell the format to me with your knowledge… “piss-off poser” runs through my mind as I reach for my ipad/mp3 player.
Lance, thanks for the great POV and the eloquent words. You are right – Classic Rock stations that do the music test, make the changes, and then lock the station down for six months or a year – until the next music test – aren’t living up to the responsibilities of programming this format. I especially enjoy the “think like a stoner, and act like a tomahawk cruise missile” – dead on.
I worked on air and programmed classic rock stations in markets as small as #125 and as large as #3, a career that spanned three decades. I left radio (or maybe I should say it left me) over 10 years ago. Nowadays I get my musical kicks actually performing the classic rock songs that I used to spin by their original artists, with my musical friends. I can attest to the lasting popularity of classic rock, and by a wide swath of demographics, not just the graybeards. Want to get someone’s attention at a jam? Play Hotel California, or Locomotive Breath, or Ballad Of John and Yoko. The crowd explodes. Well, maybe that’s an overstatement, but I rest my case. What is really fun is performing a deep cut, something like Girl On The Moon from Foreigner, incorporating it into your mix. The crowd knows it even if they don’t know it!
Ray, thanks for the comment and I appreciate the perspective. It fits mine as well. There’s a bar called Johnny Brown’s (with a big “Classic Rock” neon sign) on Atlantic Avenue in Delray Beach, Florida. They feature live music every night, but on Wednesdays, a band called The Flyers takes the stage. They are young guys but play like masters. There are familiar tracks, deep cuts, and their passionate following is rocking right along. Thanks for adding to the conversation.
I have two huge issues with classic rock radio.
1. In the 80’s the DJ’s tended to play whatever they wanted to play in addition to a playlist – this was great, because it exposed to me to a lot of bands that I might not have discovered on my own. Those days are sadly over. Every single classic rock station in North America is essentially using the same playlist. The DJ’s are not playing what they want – they are playing what they are forced to play. A business model like that won’t last much longer with all the options people have these days to listen to music. Classic rock radio need to bring “Dr. Johnny Fever” back and let him great songs play music from his own personal collection. Nobody will miss not hearing Back In Black.
2. The most moronic aspect of classic rock radio is that while they will play classic material – they won’t play new material from the same bands that they claim to celebrate. It doesn’t help rock music in general in the marketplace if you won’t play new music from classic bands – like you used to. Maybe if radio helped these bands instead of hurting them, the music industry wouldn’t be so horrible now with pop music kicking rock’s ass. Does classic rock radio really think fans of Van Halen for example – don’t want to hear NEW Van Halen with David Lee Roth back in the band? I am still buying new albums from classic rock bands and so are other people my age.
Ultimately, classic rock radio deserves much of the blame if anyone is going to claim that classic rock radio or rock in general is dead. They should be shredding the playlists and go back to doing what they used to, because all these stations sold out.
Actually, the radio you miss took place in the late ’60s through the mid-’70s. The advent of music scheduling software essentially facilitated the end of the “free-form” movement where jocks called the shots. When radio was more of a “mom & pop” business, that form of radio was possible. Today, the business demands have pushed radio in the direction that you find distasteful. No excuses – that’s just the way it is.
Regarding new music from legendary artists, Classic Rock stations – by and large – don’t expose much of it. You are right that fans of bands are in fact interested in their new material. Sadly, most of it has not successfully emerged as viable or hit-worthy. You can argue – as you have – that it’s a chicken & egg thing – that if radio exposed this music, it would have a chance to become popular. I have a different thought – what if Classic Rock stations made this music widely available on station websites for avid fans like you to sample – and vote on – thus, propelling the best of this material to the air. In this way, the new music would be organized and even curated for you, allowing you to vote it to the air.
It’s not a perfect solution, but it is one that Classic Rock stations could easily pursue. Thanks, Adam, for the heartfelt comments.
Well maybe things are different in Canada as opposed to the States, but Q107 in Toronto had DJ’s that played what they wanted all the time in addition playing deep cuts as opposed to the standard hits. I used to listen to a radio show on Friday’s well into the early 90’s from 8PM to Midnight where they played obscure hard rock and new bands that weren’t getting the usual playlist treatment. I owe half my music collection to this show for playing stuff that wouldn’t qualify for the usual 9 to 5 Monday to Friday playlist like we hear now.
Your position on new music from legendary bands or artists is unfortunately a fallacy and in a sense you thinking that, makes you part of the problem. As someone who actually listens to these albums, I can tell you that some bands are making better albums today than they did in the cheesy 80’s. The problem is that classic rock radio has taken on a pop music mentality and expects every new single from some legendary rock band to be as catcy and hooky as if Dr. Luke and Desmond Child worked on it.
Plus it’s not like anyone at radio is listening to these albums to even see if there is a song that would do well on radio – they are not even giving these artists a shot and some bands have said that there is no point in making a new album, because radio won’t play it no matter how good it is. Are you listening to new albums from legendary bands?
Radio played PLENTY of new singles from hard rock bands not that long ago that weren’t particularly catchy, hooky or even really single material in the first place – but there seemed to be some pride among the DJ’s to announce – THIS IS BRAND NEW VAN HALEN ON Q107. It’s obvious that the people running these stations today are not allowing DJ’s to get excited over some new album. Because let’s face it, if DJ’s had free rein, it would go back to how it used to be.
I would like to introduce you to a great new band called The Winery Dogs. The members are Richie Kotzen (from Poison/Mr Big), Billy Sheehan (Mr. Big/David Lee Roth)and Mike Portnoy (Dream Theatre). This band released an album in July and the critical and fan response has been stellar. Not ONE bad review anywhere. People have already called their album the best of 2013 and they have gotten 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 reviews across the board. So why isn’t radio playing The Winery Dogs. Because I am sure you will agree that this song was made for radio and the chorus is catchy as hell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnMBix9Zq5o
Classic rock radio is the problem – not the bands or artists.
Things very much are different in Canada. But perhaps the bigger issue is radio stations fulfilling their missions. Classic Rock was never about exposing new music. Even for a new Stones or Seger song, exposure of their new music is a bonus. I believe that you’re lamenting the differences between how mainstream rock treats and exposes new music, and I discuss that spirit in this post.
And I listened to/enjoyed Winery Dogs. It’s clearly something that ought to be considered by mainstream/active stations. I still don’t believe that Classic Rock is the problem, but perhaps the way that mainstream rock stations reacted to Classic Rock. Thanks again for taking the time.
Can see where you were going FRED when you referenced this Friday blog earlier this week.
Reading BOB is always a bumpy ride. But then he is the writer and commentator that prods, pokes, and skewers your sensibilities and belief systems, and actually triggers an emotion and reaction. I don’t always buy into his takes, but for me, he gets it so right in his ROAR piece; in what is really going on out there generationally in today’s marriage of music, technology, and on-demand spontaneity. And as he notes, radio has taken a back-seat, and become separate and removed from that marriage, and what is driving it. In fairness it is the mass business model.
It struck me totally at the NME Awards at the Brixton Academy in London a year or so ago now. Here was a gathering of people who were really energized and celebrating what was actually happening in music now, with a “respect-nod” to what has been. It wasn’t a button-down tuxedo event with cute asides from cue-card comperes and posturing celebs maximizing prime-time. This was a raw and raucous music party. Tables piled high with booze. A noisy reactive audience standing on chairs and tables, and a set of artists that were celebrated, energized, and just plain great. The event ran the gamut, acknowledging a musical past and heritage in the magazine’s 60th anniversary year, from an opening video salvo that skimmed over everything from the Beatles to Florence and beyond, to JOHNNY MARR presenting NOEL GALLAGHER with the “God-like Genius” award, and Gallagher thanking NME for “still giving a shit after 20 years”; Sir Peter Blake, designer of the iconic “Sgt Peppers” album art, and now in his eighties, on-stage presenting the big award to KASABIAN, who immediately dedicated the honor to DAVY JONES “the legend we lost, who died tonight”. All a music continuum that has nothing to do with formats.
Alarmingly most all of what was being musically celebrated that night was nowhere to be heard on “commercial radio”. Many of the artists on-stage even now, over a year later, are only occasionally spiking here and there on “commercial radio playlists”. Point is, they were and are already acknowledged, embraced, and consumed in that bigger digital, on-demand, and global space. And it has nothing to do with being “rock”, or “classic rock”, or “Alternative”.
How radio gets beyond the format silos, and re-energizes; and whether it’s still the medium at the center of all that for today’s generation of music discoverers and fans, is a big question.
And yes, LORDE’s “Royals” is a great song. She nails the sensibility when she sings “…we aren’t caught up in your love affair…” As for PAUL McCARTNEY, again it is great that he is still out there at-bat and rubbing shoulders with those in today’s music space.
Not everyone may love “NEW” but he too lyrically nails it with the line “…and then we were new”.
Ironically, that’s the challenge, and place radio needs to find today.
Lee, thanks so much for the eloquent post AND for nailing the essence of the problem – and the opportunity. There is an intangible spirit and energy that you saw at the NME event that gets washed out by formats, music tests, voicetracking, and the other mundane gimmicks we embed into our stations.
I share in that loss of passion as a “format guy” but I have always tried to work hard with my clients to try to imbue that spirit into their day to day programming. It’s not easy given the pressures – monetary and ratings – and yet, radio’s ultimate destiny may be to peel back the slickness and packaging and get back to the basic underpinnings of why people loved this music on the first place.
Thanks for putting it into words.
This article needs to be read by the masses. I have been shouting from the rooftops for the last 2 decades a combo of issues that nobody is willing to listen to or take the chance on doing.
It is just a fact that the same re-treads of PD’s and friend of a friend of a friend who winds up with a cushy PD job is also just as much the problem as it is with over exploited trends.
I lay blame on MTV first. MTV came along in 81 but really exploded in 82-84. Then radio sat up and took notice and started playing the bands and artists more and more that were breaking on MTV and not the other way around. But then MTV became too big for itself and decided to play with social agenda’s and politics. Dictating what was cool and in and acceptable and those bands and artists who might have had 10 or 15 hits in the 70s and early 80s on radio had no home on MTV because they did not fit the criteria. Game shows, comedy shows, reality shows, cartoons, scripted shows all wound up consuming the network and leaving the artists it had developed in the 80s and early 90s swinging in the air with no place or direction to go.
Never in the history of music have we had so many outlets for music and music video to be played and have it all become one gigantic wall of white noise. Could a band like Rush ever break out today and have a 40 year career and play to 10,000 people by themselves with no opening act? No, of course not. But there they are…43 million records sold worldwide and in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and they were never radio darlings.
Their latest record entered at #2 on Billboard’s Top 200 Pop Album Chart….that speaks volumes. No big ad campaign on late night TV shows, playing pre-game before NFL games or singing a song for Target ala Pearl Jam. Radio basically ignored it and it still moved 400,000 + units in the U.S. alone. Impressive. People still are willing to buy a quality product today from a 40 year old band.
When MTV Networks decided to develop sister digital platforms and added VH1 Classic and the very short lived MTV X….it was all about having a home for classic rock, metal, and pop artists WHILE playing the new songs from classic artists. Since those networks were developed MTV X was off the air within 3 years…killing it in favor of R&B, and VH1 Classic now shows more old TV shows like Married with Children, Larry Sanders, Rocky and Bullwinkle, movies, rockumentaries, and reality shows than it does music videos which they throw on at 2 am til 10 or maybe 11 am some days.
They just couldn’t help themselves and screwed the viewers all over again. The masses ran to get VH1 Classic on their cable and satellite provider and as soon as the channel was in enough homes…it was bye bye for the videos and 24/7 format. Now if you turn the channel on you are lucky if you catch a music video on during normal functioning hours and not 4 am when you are up and can’t sleep. A huge resurgence happened with classic rockers and a younger generation was being exposed while channel flipping of these classic rock artists. Bands like Rush, Yes, Van Halen, Genesis had other songs than Tom Sawyer, Owner of a Lonely Heart, Jump, and Invisible Touch. You got the chance to see the deeper cuts.
Satellite radio had its promising moments as well with deeper tracks and b-sides being played on various stations…but the more mainstream stations were and are playing literally the same play lists from any random Clear Channel station across the U.S. The key is to let the classic artists grow past the set playlists. Allow the DJ and the local PD and not some national auditorium machine dictate what it is people should be hearing.
Remember the Bad Company album Holy Water? Here Comes Trouble? How many AOR hits came off those? You would never know because all that rock radio will touch is the Paul Rodgers era of Bad Co. People have been basically programmed to forget bands like Giant, Joe Satriani, Dream Theater, Asia, Honeymoon Suite, Night Ranger, Styx, and so on and so on as one hit only artists. Meanwhile, a study of AOR playlists from the 80s and 90s will show so many songs that were big radio hits and gave artists I listed gold records…that it doesn’t mean anything because that material hasn’t been played and played over and over again.
The fans wouldn’t run to the stands if they were familiar with the material. The same thing is happening to stadium giants Dave Matthews Band who can sell a million or 2 records and have maybe 1 single take off on a record. Radio just isn’t interested in investing in their new songs. Ditto for say the new Fleetwood Mac EP or Stevie Nick’s latest effort. All are incredibly strong efforts and yet you can be sure your local classic rocker will not touch it, so the fans just walk away or play on facebook at the shows.
My suggestion is that labels get together and form tiered channels of their own. Everyone knows Warner Brothers has a zillion titles under its umbrella. Instead of labels sitting there scratching their heads on how to repackage a record for the 12th time…they should be breaking out all of the videos from every artist they have ever signed and begin their own video channels for television. Regardless of the surveys…people only sit online to watch music videos BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. If John Q Public had the opportunity to explore bands and be exposed to older songs or new songs from classic artists….they would gravitate towards it, labels could go back to making money again, artists could go back to making money off of old and dead records, and the revival of the music video could happen again and remain alive and well.
Stop investing in campaigns and use what you have sitting collecting dust. Develop actual networks. It will take a good amount of money to start up but that is what all of these companies have…tons of money and tons of time on their hands. It will be only then when you see a renewed interest in classic and rock music in general. There are probably a dozen or more Bon Jovi songs or Def Leppard songs that were AOR hits that don’t see the light of day because there has been a decision to keep playlists safe.
You will only succeed when you stop playing it safe and take chances. I hope someone reads this and reaches out and does something to revolutionize radio and music in general again. IT CAN BE SAVED.
Doug, thanks for the heartfelt response and your “walk through” of where the music – and its exposure – went off the rails. There are, in fact, a lot of moving parts – MTV, as you mention, as well as the advent of the Classic Rock format. But the larger impact has been the Internet, iPods, and the “long tail” impact of how music is exposed. There will never be albums that will sell like “Thriller” or “Abbey Road” as everyone has their own personalized music listening booths. That makes it difficult for programmers to understand all the moving parts involved. As you indicate at the end of your comment, playing it safe will only get you so far in this environment. FM music radio stations need to reassess what they bring to the table in this environment. It’s never been more challenging. Thanks again.
Great post and I agree with all that you are saying here. But to be fair, the Brian Howe version of Bad Company is terrible. 🙂
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Very interesting article, although I’m getting a little tired of people referencing Bob Leftsetz. He’s a failed lawyer, with clear psychological problems who never accomplished anything in the music business but feels that he can tell everyone what’s wrong with the music industry. And people, for some reason, want to listen to him. He hates any new music,(although him and Taylor Swift seemed to have a thing for a while) constantly talks about classic rock like he’s wearing rose colored glasses, because it was all about the music man. Yeah right like the Eagles didn’t know how much money they were making. It wouldn’t be so bad but when someone comes up a new idea that could maybe help the music industry his comment is, “it’ll never work” but never has a clear idea of what will work. I could go into the whole popped collar thing but that would waste precious seconds as does reading most of his letters. Keep up the great work Fred. Thanks.
Dave
Dave, thanks for the kind words. Lefsetz is an agent provocateur and a good one. I don’t always agree with his comments either, but always enjoy a good prod and again. Appreciate you taking the time to read our blog and to comment.
It’s funny, anywhere else on the internet an agent provocateur is called a troll. I guess the difference is having your own blog compared to just leaving comments. 🙂 Thanks.
I agree that Lefsetz is given way too much credit as some essential music industry source, but he did destroy Gene Simmons in a music debate they had a few years ago in Toronto.
Hi Fred. I wanted to chip in here that in the recent PPM-market format trends, Classic Rock has been showing some very strong results. From May through July, the format put together its’ best three-month stretch of shares in the 18-34 demo since the inception of PPM…and overall has set an all-time mark for total (6+) share in each of the last two monthly books. Certainly opinions are formed on more than just the black-and-white ratings results, but from Arbitron’s perspective it’s hard to agree that the format is ‘dead’ right now. Nice commentary, as always.
Jon
https://www.arbitrontraining.com/Programming/2013Sep6_August-PPM-Format-Trends.htm
https://www.arbitrontraining.com/Programming/2013Aug8_July-PPM-Format-Trends.htm
Jon, it is always reassuring to balance out the hyperbole and bloviation (much of it mine!) with cold hard facts. Thanks for providing the data that suggests the ratings picture for Classic Rock is healthy – “demographic cliff” and all. Now we have to work on that “spirit of the radio piece.”
Thanks for taking the time and providing this great info.
Who is Bob Leftsetz and why should we care what he thinks? Aren’t we all radio people here? Why would you get suckered into calling in….I mean writing in….on a red meat topic like he threw out to get attention? Music is arguably the most subjective topic out there – even more than beauty – so any comments about whether it is good or not are in the ear of the beholder. And as Fred and others have stated, the more fewer songs you play, the better your ratings.
Classic Rocks real problem is it’s aging out and is getting tougher to sell. And if the sales staff can’t sell it, bye bye Classic Rock. I’ve never seen a radio station go away because of ratings. So everyone can go on “debating” Mr. Leftsetz specious article but if you really want to help “save” Classic Rock”, tell the advertiser you heard his spot on XXXX.
I don’t entirely agree with this. Many classic rock bands rank among the top money making tours of the year – even more so than many pop artists that are currently in the spotlight, so the classic rock audience hasn’t diminished. Classic rock radio has just made the decision to not play anything new – regardless of how good that new material is.
As I mentioned before, I listen to many new albums from classic rock bands and some bands are making better albums now than they did in the 80’s and 90’s.
In addition, there are countless websites and forums dedicated to classic rock. Even Eddie Trunk and That Metal Show does well for the genre. The problem is radio. Not the music, not the bands, not anything else.
If radio started playing new songs and more obscure stuff – the classic rock fanbase would listen to radio again. As things are now – they just complain about radio and how they can’t listen to radio anymore because they play the same songs over and over and over again. Radio is making people sick of these bands, because the same stuff is played to the point of overkill.
And the debate rages on. This post elicited more response that I thought, thanks in large part to passionate fans like you. Appreciate you writing in and fanning the flames.
I said nothing about the touring acts. I was talking about radio. And each year, Classic Rock is getting to be a harder sell. Our whole industry has been doing a lousy job of selling ourselves and one of the stories we have been especially lousy in telling is the value of the Classic Rock audience.
And playing “new stuff” is not the answer. If the Stones announced they were playing nothing but their “new stuff”, they would be playing clubs, not stadiums. If radio played “new songs” by McCartney all the time, the audience would be getting up and going to the bathroom….I mean tuning out.
And the Classic Rock audience has enormous value. That new Edison study shows, for example, that Classic Rock is the most preferred music genre while people are listening to the radio at work. Thanks again for contributing.
The problem with classic rock radio only comes down to two issues that fans of the music genre have been complaining about endlessly for years now.
1. Classic rock radio doesn’t play songs from new albums in addition to the classic material like they used to.
2. Classic rock radio plays the same 4 songs max from any classic rock artist to the point that you actually begin hating the songs and never want to hear them again. People want to hear deeper cuts from bands, random songs and non-single tracks from classic albums.
Classic rock radio needs to look at 1 and 2 and do the exact opposite. Nothing else needs to be done. I have fixed classic rock radio in two simple points that these stations are currently ignoring from their own demographic.
Hey Man, if it were only that simple. Yours are universal complaints – that doesn’t make them right or wrong. Believe me that the “degree of difficulty” of pulling off both of your issues successfully is higher than you think. That doesn’t make them wrong or invalid, but it’s more complex to execute them both well so as not to lose out with the ratings because of playing unfamiliar or unexpected songs. Thanks for weighing in.
Yeah, any maybe also remind those same advertisers that 55-64 year-olds buy stuff, too. Lots of stuff. Thanks for chiming in.
It really IS that easy though and that’s the problem – people are needlessly making something out of nothing. Someone just has to pull the trigger. If I launched a radio station tomorrow, I would do exactly that and I am quite sure giving my listeners what they have been begging for would result into great ratings.
Radio has played new songs with deep cuts, random songs and non-single tracks from classic albums for decades. So it’s already a proven formula that works. What happened is that corporate got in the way of things and they like playlists.
NOBODY is turning the station because they don’t recognize a particular AC/DC song. In fact the majority of classic rock radio listeners are people that already own classic rock music from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. The audience for classic rock radio isn’t people that are casual rock listeners or people unfamiliar with the artists or albums. Classic rock radio already has a built in audience that the people running these stations don’t give a shit about and that’s why people say classic rock radio these days sucks.
You have to please your actual demographic. Classic rock radio isn’t going to win over the young crowd that used to play Guitar Hero and thought KISS were neat on Dancing With The Stars.
Here’s an entirely new concept for “classic rock” stations. Add all of the great British Invasion bands into the mix. Play more early Rolling Stones, Kinks, The Who, The Animals, The Hollies, The Yardbirds. No one else is playing a higher rotation of those “heritage” artists. They just created some damn fine songs. Songs that are still fresh and exciting to hear on the radio.
Add to the mix: The Ramones, The Clash, Elvis Costello, The Jam, The Replacements, Big Star. Those artists have a strong following.
And add in: Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf, Etta James.
More: Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, Wilson Pickett, Marvin Gaye, James Brown.
Throw all of those artists into a big pot, stir, mix it up and call the Format simply…THE RADIO…at 105.3 or whatever frequency the station is on.
No one is doing a format like this. The music of the artists I have mention deserves to be heard. This format can really shake up the FM airwaves.
‘Nuff said. Any comments about this format?
Jeffrey, thanks for the programming consultation. I will stand back and let anyone who wishes to comment do so. You are correct that Classic Rock stations of today are nowhere near as eclectic as this. Some Triple As have elements of what you’re suggesting here, but most play new music, Indie, and Alternative. So, opinions are welcome.
Thanks for your reply, Fred. Right now I’m listening to one of my old mix tapes and I gotta tell you…The Yardbirds going into Otis Redding into The Clash sure sounds exciting to me. I just keep thinking this could be the format of the future if FM rock wants to stay fresh, and certainly innovative. Stations that just keep playing the same Joe Walsh, Eagles and Led Zepplin songs will continue to sound tired and boring…at least to my ears.
Jeffrey, I can’t remember whether it was Erma Bombeck, Ellen Goodman, or someone else…but the gist was that just about everyone has the capacity to write a couple of really good columns – but that doesn’t make you a columnist.
So, too, for radio formats. Lots of people make great playlists and radio programmers love to build “perfect hours.” But that doesn’t mean you have a format
Find a market with a dog FM and sell your dream. That’s how I got Classic Rock going nearly 30 years ago. All those original Classic Rock stations were total losers in other formats.
Thanks for writing and contributing.
Well, here it is, five years later, and this post is still relevant. The corporate FM stations continue to serve up the same 300 songs each day, while internet radio stations continue to gain ground by incorporating many of the ideas that previous replies above have mentioned.
There are small internet stations that do still care about the Classic Rock format (I operate one of them), and are adapting to the changing landscape.
I encourage folks to seek those internet stations out, and support them.
Thanks for keeping it alive and humming, Gordon.