While not quite “spotless,” there is something interesting going on in Pacific Northwest radio that might be worthy of your attention. Venerable Alternative station KNDD has instituted a major new policy that started this past Monday: It’s “The 2 Minute Promise” and it’s simple – the station will never play more than two minutes of commercials at a time. Not a for a few weeks or a few months. This thing’s in stone.
Now unlike all the commercial-free clock chicanery that we’ve monkeyed with for decades – from commercial-free hours to 20-song music marathons to 10,000 songs in a row – this one’s the real deal. Consumers have learned that when you get a long block of music on a radio station, you’re probably going to pay for it later – almost always with more commercials at the end of the stunt or the next hour.
That’s not what #2MinutePromise is about. Parent Entercom gave the Seattle team an opportunity to do something innovative: cut the spot load in half and find creative ways to make it work. I should add that this isn’t one of those “no DJs – just wall to wall music” stunts. In fact, no KNDD personality was harmed during the making of this policy. They’re all still there, introducing Seattle to great new Alternative music from around the world and around the block just like they always have. Now there will be a lot less commercial clutter in the way.
So now it’s Radio Economics 101 because we’re going to learn a lot about supply and demand, the advertising environment, and about how consumers react to this new configuration they’ve wanted for a long time now.
Wisely, the Entercom Seattle team – Jack Hutchison, Dave Richards, and PD Garett Michaels – have taken the opportunity to redesign some other aspects of the brand as well, including the station’s cool new logo, as well as an even deeper commitment to new music discovery.
There’s a realization that even a smart, highly visible policy like “The 2 Minute Promise” isn’t enough to be a game changer on its own. That’s why other pieces – especially new music discovery – have to be in place.
The other issue has to do with the realization that broadcast radio no longer competes in a vacuum, only up against other stations in town. This “Why Less Radio?” pyramid from Techsurvey10 that isolates Alternative fans who say they’re listening to less AM/FM radio in the past year clearly shows the trouble spots:
Of course, repetitive music is the #1 culprit. And KNDD is only too aware that its mission as the original Alternative station in Seattle is to be at the fulcrum of new music discovery for its fans. But you’ll also notice that tied for second is the “too many commercials” complaint as well as fans migrating to Pandora. And that last issue is perhaps the piece of KNDD’s strategy that isn’t being covered in the trade press as much as it should be.
For too long, broadcast radio has quietly stood on the sidelines as Pandora has gained audience, momentum, presence, and positive fan perceptions. The mindset that a station like KNDD merely competes against other FM music stations in Seattle is naïve and no longer viable in today entertainment ecosystem. Whether you consider Pandora to be “radio” – or not – is beside the point. A chart like this clearly shows the dynamic that Alternative music fans are making choices that go beyond the FM radio dial.
Fortunately for KNDD, satellite radio plays only a cameo role in this drama because most Alternative fans refuse to pay for content they can easily acquire for free. But Pandora – and other pure-plays – present challenges for many reasons, not the least of which is a much lighter commercial load.
But other stations in the market will take notice, because The End has dropped the gauntlet, has stepped up, and is playing roughly half the amount of commercials that everyone else is. And it’s not a stunt.
As importantly, KNDD is truly living up to its brand: this is a very Alternative move to make in a radio environment where risk-taking has been trumped by PPM conservatism. In this case, this reduced commercial diet should resonate in a ratings system measured by meters, but the gamble here is whether the sales and marketing department at KNDD will answer a very loud bell and make this work with station advertisers.
Fans are noticing, too, and the social piece of an initiative like #2MinutePromise with an audience like this one is critical. Here’s a dialogue I pulled right off the station’s Facebook page. Not surprisingly, some listeners are questioning whether this is just another radio gimmick. Note how KNDD personalities are acknowledging them:
So now we’ve got something to watch – a station doing something that is very much out of the box in a market that will react – one way or the other.
Game on…with much fewer commercials.
Full disclosure: Our company consults KNDD and conducts research for them, too.
Jacobs Media has consistently walked the walk in the digital space, providing insights and guidance through its well-read national Techsurveys.
In 2008, jacapps was launched - a mobile apps company that has designed and built more than 1,300 apps for both the Apple and Android platforms. In 2013, the DASH Conference was created - a mashup of radio and automotive, designed to foster better understanding of the "connected car" and its impact.
Along with providing the creative and intellectual direction for the company, Fred consults many of Jacobs Media's commercial and public radio clients, in addition to media brands looking to thrive in the rapidly changing tech environment.
Fred was inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame in 2018.
- Radio + Thanksgiving = Gratitude - November 27, 2024
- Is It Quittin’ Time For SiriusXM? - November 26, 2024
- Radio, It Oughta Be A Crime - November 25, 2024
I think it’s good when a station tries something new, which can definitely help them stand out in the market.
It’s interesting to look at Nova Sydney’s launch in Australia. They were the first new station for decades in that market. All the competitors had a very high spot load (and were all doing v. well). When it launched Nova used a positioner as “Never more than 2 ads in a row” – as a new insurgent, youth station, the concept was very believable by listeners. The station quickly became number one – and other stations in the market had to reassess their spot load.
However I think it worked because they were new and it was a believable narrative.
When I was working with Capital FM in London – a CHR station that had lost its shine – the team decided to import the idea. They knew they would take a revenue hit as they would be halving the ad load, but that – based on Nova’s success – it had a good chance of regaining its dominance.
Unfortunately the issue was that listeners didn’t believe it. They heard more spot sets, and assumed there was the same number of ads, just spread across the station. This wasn’t true, but like most things in radio perception was reality!
Matt, thanks for the perspective. And what you describe for Capital FM probably parallels what KNDD will experience – at least some initial skepticism. You can see that in some of the Facebook comments. The onus is on the station to be real and genuine. And as mentioned in my post, #2minutepromise needs to be accompanied by other values – live DJs that know their way around a music library and Seattle clubs, new music discovery, and being reflectors in a city that is truly unique in America.
Whether The End will succeed in changing perceptions that have been formed for two decades is on the line here. I applaud them for staying the course with their brand and trying something true innovative – at least here in the States.
Thanks for adding to the conversation.
Good commentary Fred. Keep in mind that we are dealing with an audience that has a high sensitivity to high repetition and a strong “commercial” sound. Having run a Prog Rock station in New Haven in the 70’s with a similar low unit load (8 per hour, regardless of length) we had tremendous listener support. I believe a similar approach by CHRs or similar formats will be very well received, but might take a little longer to take hold because listeners are more conditioned to hear, and may not dislike hearing, shorter playlists. They aren’t in to discovery as much, but will grow in to it if they hear a broader playlist. The payoff on this move will be listener response to local advertisers to reinforce what will be a higher resulting spot rate. To have demand the statin has to increase its productivity for its advertisers. Believe me, this is a long time coming and I really hope it sends a strong message to the industry that they better reverse the evils wrought by consolidation and massive de-localization. I’m all for it.
Dick, thanks for the look back because I think this problem is universal and historic. The kind of policy KNDD is initiating may resonate even more because of how cluttered most commercial stations have become. And there may be implications for public radio, too, because up to now, it has enjoyed a huge advantage. Now that may be narrowing – at least in Seattle.
This will be a fascinating test case, as you suggest. And it may turn the industry’s notion of supply and demand upside down. At least us programmers can only hope. Thanks again.
Fred, how do you think this will affect a format like CHR, which doesn’t depend much on TSL and whose audience always seems to crave “more of the same”?
Obviously, the result of Seattle won’t be known for some time to come, and I think we all hope that the lower spot load becomes a trend. I’m curious if the sense of musical adventure is a product of Alternative, or something that may have legs across all youth-based formats.
My suspicion is that CHR would benefit from this type of experiment, too. After I read you comment, Jack, I went to our TS10 breakout for why CHR fans are listening to less radio – and commercials as a corrosive element rank even higher (as does Pandora). Who will be the first CHR station to try this?
Thanks for the comment.
Being in proximity to Silicon Valley for the past 15 years I tend to reserve a higher bar for invoking the word “innovative” than most Radio people do. Maybe that’s why listeners tend to think Radio Station claims are full of shit?
So while I would not call this effort innovative or ground-breaking – it is certainly BOLD and I loudly applaud that.
Here’s why it’s bold – they put the Brand on the line.
It’s a promise. There’s no ambiguities – no one is going to be able to sit in a meeting 6 months from now and push for back-tracking because “it didn’t vault us to number one” or whatever.
No wimping out. I love that.
Fred, you may remember we did “3 Minutes or less” in San Francisco years ago. But we never had the balls to put the brand on the line with it – we never made a promise – we always left wiggle room in our positioning so we could change our minds – virtually guaranteeing we would change our minds.
If other stations copy anything about this – it should be the BOLDNESS of this move – and not necessarily the specifics of what is being promised.
I agree with you Jeff, very good point. The pressure point here will be on sales because something will have to give, either the rate card or the unit load. Making a true brand statement with this takes it to a well beyond the norm, and the market segment they are talking to with new music, primarily X’s and Y’s, will know if they are unfaithful to their promise faster than anyone else because they won’t be perceived as credible anymore.
I think your distinction between innovative and bold is probably right. As you point out, locking it down and making it a promise is key to it having any real credibility with an audience that is skeptical to begin with, and probably even a little suspicious because The End has been a lot of things. It may take time to convince them that #2minutepromise is real, but the Seattle team is committed to it.
I agree that it shouldn’t be blindly copied. There may be other variants that work better. But the key is setting it stone, being bold, and holding fast – on the policy AND on rates.
This will be very interesting to watch. Thanks, Jeff.
I don’t know if its innovative, bold or just smart, but its about time. Some random thoughts:
1) I don’t think sales has a role here. They probably won’t be able to get a higher CPP because of a lower unit count. It might break a tie somewhere, but any revenue gains will probably be from better ratings.
2) The lower spot load should be highlighted more. Half the ads and a 2 minute promise would have more bite IMO.
3) Every major broadcaster should be trying this with different formats, different spot loads and in different markets to determine what the sweet spots are by format and market size.
4) The fact that this is the first time anyone’s tried this in a long time reflects really badly on radio. The tech survey results are and have been widely available and the clock on the connected car is ticking…what exactly is everyone waiting for?
5) If Pandora hopes to stay in business, they’ll have to experiment in the opposite direction and see how many units they can add profitably. Their low spot load is one big reason for their popularity, but they have to find out if there’s enough wiggle room to allow them to make a dollar – which to this point they haven’t.
6) Congrats to everyone involved with this decision for doing something different and credible enough that it might actually ring true and have a real impact.
Bob, I was hoping to get feedback like yours as well as some of the previous comments. The other “extra” here is that this post and the blog format slows for some “professional crowd sourcing.” I know Entercom Seattle is reading these and hope to hear from them as well.
Thanks, Bob.
Bob, regarding highlighting the lower spot load. We’re hitting that point heavily. The #2 Minute Promise is half the commercials and never more than 2 minutes at a time.
Bob, to you point on CPP, my view is that the lower spot load should translate in to more listeners and TSL, thus higher ratings. The CPP doesn’t have to be impacted if ratings are higher as a result of the change. If ratings don’t increase then the point of making the change has not been proven. In the end if they’re cutting their yield by 50% they will need to do something to make up the difference. That could be digital and NTR, but not to that degree. Like I said originally, something will have to give. I hope the result will be substantially higher ratings. We’ll see.
I applaud the effort as well. I love courage and this is courageous. At the end of the day..only one thing will matter. Will this change be reflected in Nelsen and will the limited scope of PPM pick this up and continue to grow this station?
Once the buzz dies down in market and outside of the market, that’s gonna be the deciding factor. If it does, they’ll be touted as a ground breaker. If it falls back or doesn’t grow…they’ll be in a impossible financial spot.
There’s a lot on the line here, Dave, and you’re a veteran of corner office decisions. This was indeed a bold, courageous move for a brand (and an audience) that’s endured too many changes over the years. This move has the consumer in mind (and I believe the advertiser will benefit in myriad ways if sales can leverage it) and that’s a smart way to go. Appreciate you commenting.
I’ve been reading about this, but have not seen what their total ad minutes per hour will be. No more than 2 minutes in a row leaves lots of wiggle room.
Yes, they’re saying half the spots. But if that’s half of a news/talk station they could still be running 15 minutes or more per hour.
Any firm definition of the minutes per hour?
They are rolling 6 minutes an hour – that’s it.
We’ve been doing the same thing (more or less; we limited ourselves to three stopsets of three minutes or less) with my client station 94.5/KRKE in Albuquerque running my 80s New Wave format. We’ve managed to keep a half-hour music sweep on the clock as well, and tie them together with a pre-stop liner that ends with the phrase “X minutes or less from NOW”.
Given how the pendulum swung much too far in the direction of super-long sweeps “paid for” by super-long stopsets, you know the listeners are going to respond positively.
Now what we need to do is what Bill Drake did 50 years ago at KHJ: Keep the limit on commercial minutes per hour and when you’re sold out, raise the rates. Don’t wait for the ratings to defend the move. Make the supply scarce and the demand will make the rate increase justifiable.
And that’s why I talked about Radio Economics 101, K.M., because part of changing the model isn’t just limited to commercials/stopsets, but also redefining the value of a radio station like KNDD. We shall see. Thanks for the report from Albuquerque.
I knew that was what you meant, Fred. I just wanted to say it in no uncertain terms and add the historical perspective.
I have always said that pendulum would have to swing back eventually, and now we’re starting to see it happen.
Totally get it, K.M. Thanks again for the perspective.
Everything Old is New Again.
Why is this “new”?
When I was carrying a 45 share and the two competitors were also in high share digits we ran 12 commercial minutes an hour (sometimes more) but never more than two or three between songs. AND NEVER ALL IN A ROW AND STRUNG TOGETHER.
When commericals are ALWAYS back to back the audience knows what to expect and buttons are pushed. The secret is (except for program teasers) NEVER LET THE AUDIENCE KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. The personality should be envouraged to take part in the commercial “breaks” by adding something between them. When this method is followed, if the personality is talented and clever enough, the audience will be reluctant to tune away for fear THEY WILL MISS SOMETHING. Running a zillion commercials back to back is a signal for THE AUDIENCE TO LEAVE.
Lee, and the desire to somehow “do the right PPM thing” has obscured the art of programming. Thanks for reminding us how it was done and why it worked.
KRBZ in Kansas City has been doing this for years. They are also an Entercom station and actually their PD, Lazlo, did his afternoon show in Seattle and syndicated to KC for awhile.
I always remember every stopset beginning with either the jock or the imaging saying “back in 2 minutes or less”
Drew, I think you’re going to see more stations try various configurations with the common theme of playing fewer commercials and creating a better User Experience for the audience. The success of failure will be predicated on ratings (of course) but also on the sales department leveraging the supply/demand deal. We shall see. Thanks for the note.