The often symbiotic but sometimes awkward relationship between radio and records took a crazy turn earlier this month as superstar Taylor Swift and ex-DJ David Mueller sued – and counter-sued – one another in what became a high-profile trial.
As we discussed in a blog post earlier in the month, at least America was talking about radio – even if it wasn’t in the context that most broadcasters would prefer.
In fact, the proceedings were so controversial that sketch artist, Jeff Kandyba, took loads of criticism from angry Swifties upset by his 
rendering of their favorite artist. He explained that “A person like Taylor Swift, who is very pretty — has perfectly proportioned dimensions on the face — is actually much harder [to sketch].” So, there you go.
But in the end, the case was really all about what became the most (in)famous meet & greet in the history of these often chaotic backstage events. For KYGO, it certainly was not a win. And that led me to think about the value of these behind-the-ropes klatches between artists and radio people.
Record labels and artist managers have long used these events as perks for programmers (and other station personnel) to feel good about adding an artist’s records and supporting the concert tour. Obviously, in the case of Mueller vs. Swift (and Swift vs. Mueller), something went terribly wrong in Denver back in 2013.
In thinking about why artists do meet & greets in the first place, and what radio truly gets out of them, perhaps a reset is necessary. These events are obviously perfunctory but necessary for the artist and the band. But isn’t the real value about pleasing fans, rather than making a couple of PDs, MDs, and their spouses happy?
And in the case of radio, how much more valuable would a meet & greet be if you made it a policy to give them away to truly deserving fans who genuinely love and revere the artist?
I was thinking about the Taylor Swift backstage legal fiasco when the photo posted at the beginning of today’s post showed up in my inbox. It’s WMGK’s morning vet John DeBella, hanging out with Classic Rock legend Alice Cooper. (John assures me there was absolutely no groping going on.)
When you read the email, it’s clear WMGK is spot on with its Alice Cooper backstage meet & greet giveaway – a chance for one member of their audience to enjoy a true “bucket list” experience. And it’s a way for the station to celebrate its Philadelphia fan base – something that competitors like Spotify, Pandora, and SiriusXM aren’t likely to pull off locally.
And what does it really cost the station? Most veteran radio people are likely tired of the backstage rigmarole anyway. It’s already been a long day, the encores are over, and then you stand around with a handful of other radio people, waiting your turn for what is often an awkward two minute brush with fame and yet another photo op for the trades.
But fan-focused promotions turn the experience around. And thanks to email database surveys, it isn’t difficult to identify small groups of core fans who idolize an artist, whether your station is famous for Alice Cooper, Cage the Elephant, Jason Aldean, Lil Wayne, or Skillet.
It’s about putting the audience first – yes, ahead of DJs and PDs. When your strategy is built on the listener experience – let’s call it the LX – good things happen. Stations that are focused on the LX are the ones best prepared to fight today’s competitive battles, as well as the ones that will come later as digital media use grows and intensifies.
In programming, music, promotion, and even sales, meetings, when you make it about the listener, good things can happen for your station and your brand.
It’s not about making David Mueller happy. It’s about the listener experience.
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Along with providing the creative and intellectual direction for the company, Fred consults many of Jacobs Media's commercial and public radio clients, in addition to media brands looking to thrive in the rapidly changing tech environment.
Fred was inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame in 2018.
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Some good points here. The vast majority of meet and greets I have been involved in have seemed obligatory…for me. Honestly I could not have cared less for most of them and many times it was an artist I had already met. The only ones I have been excited about are the ones with the true superstars (Taylor Swift, Foo Fighters, etc). Many times though I am doing it for my friends and family who this matters more to (my daughter meeting Taylor was amazing). It’s a perk of the job that I enjoy sharing with those I care about.
Thanks for the comments and insights. I think everyone in radio enjoys sharing these moments with friends and family. But there’s opportunity sharing them with Dana, too.
Always liked the events where the band/artist would interact with the fans. There have been instances where observing how the band/artist treated their fans influenced my decision to add or give a little extra push to the promotion efforts of their management.
Good point, Kurt – another interesting point of view of those revealing backstage moments.
The only rethinking I did after I heard this story is that Mueller’s actions compounded the already diminishing reputation DJs have been suffering for the last 15 or so years. The industry cheapened it with voice tracking and the resulting pay grade, streaming services and voiceless playlists trend have made it a career nobody wants to pursue anymore. It used to have some prestige. The Mueller/Swift cases just slung more mud on that dynamic. Thanks Mueller.
Bill, some reputations have been sullied, and Mueller certainly didn’t advance the cause. A lot of DJs do some amazing and wonderful things for their listeners and their communities. I’m looking at meet & greets as another opportunity to give listeners something they couldn’t buy themselves. Thanks for commenting.
I didn’t mean to ignore the good that many remaining personalities do. That’s definitely true. In 1970 I was glued to the radio admiring DJs in NYC dreaming of doing it myself. After ending up on the radio for several decades (and running) I’m saddened that the regard and respect I had for that profession as a kid hardly remains today.
Also, meet n greets have always been something listeners couldn’t buy themselves. And it’s supposed to be for the listeners. Not the personalities. Mueller also crossed that line, too, obviously.
And today, the meet n greet has evolved into something fans CAN buy. Artists sometimes offer backstage for a fee or “premium ticket option”, and although some may be donating the meet n greet proceeds to charity, which is great, some aren’t. That’s another thing that sort of pops the lid on the prestige and privilege of the experience.
Bill, you make a good point. You can buy them from American Express or from companies that put together event packages. But their costly and out of the question for the average listener. This is where the radio station comes in. The event that MGK put together for Alice Cooper is exactly the kind of thing that resonates – it’s the right price AND there’s a radio station involved. That’s the win. Thanks for writing again.
Good read Fred and as we try to show people that radio announcers aren’t guys that run around with “underwear on their head”, sadly this Mueller story didn’t do much to change that vibe.
That being said and as you know, after my many years in the country music world, I can tell you there are now at least, usually two type of M&G’s. There is the normalized or “bucket list” meet and greet with the fans and there’s a “radio room”, where the market’s station personnel are hosted and spend some quality time with the artists and the label management.
While almost every country act is stunningly friendly to their fans and station personnel alike, in truth, the acts/labels want that time with the station management/leadership to talk music and of course, their current and future singles. They value that.
So, at least in this format..those (at least) aren’t opportunities we can give away to fans…but enhancing those experiences when we can and when possible, make great sense. Thanks for bringing attention to this.
I think your clarification is important here. Those “radio rooms” have value – especially for the artist and their management team. It’s important we make sure the listener piece continues to be important in this mix. And BTW, us rock guys are jealous of you country guys when we’re talking about this topic. Thanks, Dave.
Personally, I love M&G’s for the reason of sharing an experience with those who don’t get to do it. I’ve done several with bands that I consider friends, and watching the faces of listeners or friends is worth the price of admission. Now that my kids are old enough I sometimes feel like I put in enough equity to take them back to meet some of their faves. It’s a great experience they won’t ever forget. Same with the listeners.
You can’t let one douche ruin it for everyone.
Meltdown, I think you’ve got the balance right. As talent or a programmer, you derive satisfaction from these backstage encounters by giving joy to others – your kids, friends, and yes, listeners. And you’re right about the douche factor. Thanks for chiming in.
I really HATE most Meet and Greets. Such a hallow mean nothing experience that is nothing more than a who-really-cares photo op. If the artist doesn’t really want to meet me and my listeners I could care less. I don’t want to go backstage if I’m going to feel like I’m invading someone else’s privacy.
Why do it? Well if we can make it a more quality experience for the listener than the cattle hurding it has become. More efforts need to be made on both sides, but as radio people we need to think “what can we do to make this better?” Then make an effort to make it more than a cookie cutter experience.
Matthew, agree with your point of view on this. It’s about shifting our focus to the listener. Thanks for the comment.
All of the points in the column and the comments seem valid and on target. I think its important not to magnify this one event into something more than it is. Meet and greets have been going on for a long time and this is the first time I’ve ever heard of one going wrong like this.
One isolated incident/a-hole shouldn’t end a tried and true practice, but using it as a trigger to make it better and more valuable is the best and most productive reaction.
Bob, I agree this is a “one bad apple” case. But, if you think about meet & greets not in the context of serving radio, but through the lens of how we can serve fans, these backstage events take on a whole different value.
I doubt if the DJ world is monolithic when it comes to liking or not giving a damn about posing with performers backstage but I am betting it has more interest for the fan. I have rarely had an eventful pose with the rock star experience. However, I have had many terrific on air in the studio moments with performers and that is where the Radio personality does his or her service to the listener. The picture with the star is almost completely useless in a radio sense and at best A fond memory for the pictured participants.
Good observations all, Dan. Thanks for the comment and the insight.
Best example of “Fans First”?
Journey’s legendary manager Herbie Herbert….Not only regarding M+Gs…In the days of stamps and postcards…HH would collect fan addresses and created a monster of a Rolodex…A good ol’ fan club.
Plus, fans always were put FIRST…Before “Jacket Jerks” (said with love) took their pic for “Fred Magazine”.
And it didn’t cost $450 per for the privilege. 🌟👍🏼
Remember him well. That band was always very “user-friendly.” I fondly remember WRIF softball games vs. Journey, even when the band was peaking. It told me how fan-centric those guys were. Thanks for the reminder.
My pleasure 🙏🏼
BTW …If I may suggest a blog on #GreatSongsAboutRadio?
https://youtu.be/ARkj12Y6Uh4
I agree with your views on the Meet & Greet that it should be primarily for the listeners/fan. I recently took a winner/listener to a Meet & Greet with Nickleback and we billed it as they got to hang out with their favorite jock and then meet the band before the show. Was a huge success and big social media win.
Thanks for your daily blogs, I love and value them.
Smart move, Heather. You obviously “get it.” Thanks for sharing the story and the kind words.
Fred,
Once again, 100% topical, but also a great sharing subject as well. Meet and Greet’s offered fun, and unavailable opportunities, but I feel that they have been bested in recent years by sound checks and huge prizes like the Mix 104 Beach House where both John Mayer and Ed Sheeran came by and played -that’s a grand slam.
One time back at WFNX the mercurial pixie Bjork “agreed” to take a listener down to Newbury Street for a shopping spree, but when we went to the hotel to pick her up she just looked away and said “oh no, I’m not doing that” softly. I felt fortunate just to get a photo with her, because frankly I was in awe of her talent. Still, a dud for us.
Years later I brought a whole crew backstage to meet CSN. As longtime fans might expect, each personality lived up to their reputation, as Crosby was sarcastic and detached, Nash was warm and friendly, and Stills, well he was suffering with some kind of skin problem that prevented him from shaking hands. Even though it was a medical issue, you could see listeners sort of hear the sad trombone, as Stills moved to the sides, posed for photos reluctantly, and was fairly aloof. I think performance-based special events are the best. Putting artists in the fan-adoration mode can only last so long. Not everyone is Donny Osmond (a great guy btw).
Tai, thanks for the perspective. I have a friend in radio who told me avoided meeting his all-time favorite rock star to avoid a moment like the ones you describe. Sometimes, it’s better to have that fantasy idea of the artist in your mind. For listeners, it’s a crap shoot, and I think you’re right that a lot can go wrong. A sound check or a small private concert might be a better way to go for all those reasons. Appreciate it.