I was having a nice week. Some new business opportunities, great parking Karma, and some good catchup calls with old friends. And I was looking forward to today. As you loyal JacoBLOG readers know, I’ve designated Thursday most weeks as #TBT where I get to dredge up an older post, rerun it with a new intro, and call it good.
But NO.
You’re getting original content today for only one reason and one reason only:
I am a hopeless sucker the day after Cleveland’s Rock & Roll Hall of Fame publishes its list of new nominees for the year. Even though I know their list of honorees will piss me off, and cause turbulence on my social media pages, I foolishly write a blog post bludgeoning their system.
But it’s hopeless, I know that by now. And it seems like with each passing year, the powers that be on their nominees committee get more and more outrageous. That stimulates WTF?! posts from journalists and bloggers like me, social media goes nuts, and an institution that has no right to revel in its absurd choices elicits tons of attention – not for making good choices, but for continually making absurd ones.
This year’s poster girl for their inane honor goes to a remarkable woman, musician, actress, and entertainer – Dolly Parton.
She is a humanitarian. You probably remember the story she made a $1 million contribution to COVID-19 vaccine research that ended up as the Moderna shots. She’s spunky, fun, talented, and a national treasure.
But she’s NOT a rock ‘n roller!
Maybe even she would tell you that. Dolly was inducted in the Country Music Hall of Fame in 1999. According to Wikipedia, “she has had 25 songs reach no. 1 on the Billboard country music charts, a record for a female artist (tied with Reba McEntire). She has 44 career Top 10 country albums, a record for any artist, and she has 110 career-charted singles over the past 40 years.”
But the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?
And then there’s Lionel Richie, another fabulous, accomplished artist. But in the same list of nominees with the MC-5, the New York Dolls, Eminem, and Fela Kuti??
I get it – the Hall aspires to be about the celebration of all music, regardless of genre. But if that’s the case, where is Count Basie, John Coltrane, Frank Sinatra, and Leonard Bernstein? If we’re going to honor great musicians, artists, players, and singers, why draw any lines? Miles Davis is the only jazz artist to make the cut?
This institution is a living, breathing branding error. It’s false advertising. And it screams the place simply has lost its compass (or perhaps never had it to begin with).
And in the bigger picture of institutions that honor their best, it makes no sense.
Would the Country Hall of Fame induct Led Zeppelin?
Would the Jazz Hall of Fame nominate AC/DC?
Would the Baseball Hall of Fame honor Tom Brady?
No, because these things make no more sense than the idiocy the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame does each and ever year – without fail. I’m not the only one out there who feels like Charlie Brown this morning.
I know frustrated rockers will at least be happy Pat Benatar (and many other women) somehow made the cut after years of being ignored. So there’s that.
But the list of rockers with huge success and influence – with the hit singles and albums to show for it – have never been nominated would make your head spin.
Among others, Bad Company, Boston, ELP, the J. Geils Band, and my personal head scratcher, Peter Frampton. There are inherent biases – and politics – inside all these organizations. That’s to be expected. But many of these snubs are inexplicable, arbitrary, petty, and seem to almost be calculated decisions to annoy music fans.
They’re just the tip of the iceberg. The longer list would make a great radio station.
At a time when everything has been disrupted, is it too much to ask for a little sanity from the Rock Hall? A list of nominees next year that doesn’t elicit WTFs and eyerolls? Even the Grammys occasionally get it right.
And oh yeah, if the Hall could release its 2023 honorees on a Friday next year, that would be greatly appreciated.
Rock on.
You should know that many very smart observers of music – and this institution – will take exception to my comments. Erica Banas is one of them. She is the talented and capable Senior Digital Content Editor for the Beasley Media Group. And she’s a very practiced writer with a point of view. And hers is opposed to mine, which is why it is linked here below.
Like some in the music industry, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is viewed as a melting pot of music – not just limited to those you hear on rock radio stations. Erica feels strongly the “branding argument” I’ve made in this post is shopworn, banal, and misses the bigger point. As you’ll read, she also avers the Rock Hall’s eclectic nominating process has been in place since its beginnings, and she lists the first five years of inductees to make her point. And finally, she believes the “Music Hall of Fame” is a lame name – and I think she’s right.
I urge you to take a few extra minutes to read Erica’s post. – FJ
Here’s the video announcing this year’s nominees, presented by the Rock Hall’s President/CEO Greg Harris:
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How many ’60s kids picked up guitars thanks to The Monkees?
I signed THAT petition to get them into the Hall years ago.
Thanks Fred. I was looking forward to your thoughts. And thanks for linking to Erica’s piece. I would add Kansas to the list of bands that deserve consideration. I do think J. Geils was on the nominee list at least one year. I got in a Facebook argument with someone who couldn’t understand why they were. I told them, “You obviously aren’t from Boston or Detroit.”
I might also add to your Facebook argument a simple, “Wubba Gubba with the Green Teeth” and let it go at that.
This is what I wrote yesterday in response to one of the many friends who shared similar sentiments:
In the formative years of what was called “Rock and Roll,” that description applied to an extremely broad array of musical genres, including R&B, boogie-woogie, gospel, and country. The Hall of Fame embraced that original definition. Hence its broad, inclusive nature. Argue all you want about which artists qualify because of their success and/or influence. But the annual cries of “But so-and-so isn’t ‘rock and roll’” is kinda pointless.
Harvey, yours is a very enlightened response (as is Erica’s POV). But for the 99% (I’m guesstimating) of rockers who aren’t on the inside, the philosophy of the Rock Hall can be frustrating, confusing, and illogical. It may have been this way from the beginning, but that doesn’t mitigate each year’s odd list of nominees. As always, appreciate the comment.
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Harvey’s comment assesses this issue with the proper historical context; lessons which are often lost on the emerging generations that followed. The broadness of what was considered “rock and roll” then was a milestone in music’s development over the years, prior to the formatic fragmentation of all the genres by the audience and the industry.
For me, I think most people focus on the wrong descriptor for the RRHOF. It’s not just a Hall of Rock & Roll. It’s a HALL OF FAME. So, as long as the nominees are all famous, I’m good.
Jay, that’s a fair assessment of an organization whose mission you and other radio and music insiders understand – and buy into. Most music fans – and isn’t that who the museum is meant to serve – aren’t going to see it that way.
Thanks for not saying Warren Zevon belongs on the list.
You’re welcome. By the way, his hair was perfect.
I will gladly nominate him for Best Hair Reference
Fred, your cartoon is hilarious, and the whole post is entertaining. I basically agree, with the understanding that “rock star” has been genericized (is that a word?) beyond the rock&roll genre, in life generally. So I guess the R&R HoF takes that approach.
Still, your list of non-nominees is eye-opening. I agree the concept would make an outstanding radio special, and if I had time for the project (I don’t) I would steal your idea to make a Spotify playlist. (I wonder if there already is one.)
Here’s the basic thing. There are two markets for Halls of Fame: Fans, and the world at large. I’m a baseball fan, and always deeply concerned with the annual nominating and voting. To the world at large, the baseball HoF is a tourist museum and an institution which *creates* a level of stardom, thereby defining its own boundaries.
Cheers, and thanks for a fun read.
Appreciate these comments, Brad. I love the “two markets” angle. That’s definitely in play here.
Nailed it, right on point.
An institution that has lost its vision. Rock and Roll, a phrase coined by Alan Freed, an American disc jockey and rock ‘n’ roll promoter that played himself in the film ‘Go, Johnny, Go!’ A film title that comes from a song by Chuck Berry, the father of ROCK AND ROLL GUITAR.
There should be a litmus test and it’s simple since Rock and Roll came from Radio’s music discovery with Alan Freed leading the pack. One simple question should be asked.
Can you play it on a rock and roll station???
Dolly Parton and the answer is NO! Not even a rock and roll oldies radio station would.
It is absolutely like putting Led Zeppelin in the Country Hall Of Fame, it just wouldn’t and will never happen, and more so shouldn’t happen.
Sadly, there are no definitive tests for any of these HofF organizations which is why they continue to stir it up with their decisions. Thanks, Billy.
The baseball Hall of Fame passed over probably the greatest player of all time -and definitely in my lifetime – for taking performance enhancing drugs he never tested positive for while electing an individual who not only tested positive but is the only one who was targeted for assassination by drug dealers for his association with other drug dealers.
THAT I got upset about because the Baseball Hall is the authority. Keeping out steroid users was supposed to be about the “morals” clause. If I didn’t know it before, it has now become clear selection has nothing to do with steroids and is based on who sportswriters like and “Big Papi” was a lot more of a loveable copy giver than Barry Bonds.
The place in Cleveland? For me it is akin to the line in Casablanca where Ugarte asks Rick if he despises him and he replies, “If I gave you any thought I probably would”. I can’t get worked up about it because it has less legitimacy than professional wrestling. There are even less people involved in that selection process than the 400 sportswriters involved on the baseball side so you have fewer people to negate the biases we all inherently carry with us.
Here is the real question – should Gram Parsons be in the Country Music Hall of Fame? He brought a lot of Rock ears to that music and I signed the petition. You could also make a case for the Dead.
You could indeed. But tnow you got me wondering whether Barry Bonds could actually get into the Rock N’ Roll Hall of Fame.
Surly attitude, hatred of writers, indifferent to fans, used drugs…….sounds like a lot of Rock Artists I know. I think you are on to something!
Another tidbit on how choices are made – A friend of mine is a Grammy voter and I remember him telling me a few years ago that Adele was going to clean up. I asked how he knew and he said they list the entries alphabetically and most of the voters have heard of her and are too lazy to scroll down.
I most definitely know the RRHoF judging process but I’ve been involved with qualitative competitions like this before, and things aren’t always as buttoned up as people think. As for your Adele story, I’d love to believe it’s not true.
Furthermore, just a quick test.
Spin the song 9 to 5 by Dolly Parton on WRIF in Detroit about 5 times in one day next week.
Let the people tell us if it’s Rock and Roll.
See what happens : )
No thanks! I hate the smell of melting phones lines.
100% agree. Your examples; the comparison to Baseball HOF inducting Brady was a perfect analogy. Dolly Parton is a national treasure, and rightly inducted into Country Music HOF. She deserves Kennedy Center Honors/ Medal of Freedom. R&R HOF ? No.
And it was announced earlier today Dolly is hosting the Academy of Country Music Awards next month. Makes sense, right?
The debate about who is missing from the Hall of Fame versus who got in will drag on forever. But the debate about what subgenres qualify as “Rock & Roll” might be squashed if we all brush up on our history.
Most people that are alive today were not here at the dawn of the Rock & Roll era so there may be a lack of perspective. The term “Rock & Roll” was coined In 1952 by Cleveland DJ Alan Freed on his “Moon Dog” show to describe Rhythm & Blues music coming out of the south like Fats Domino, Big Mama Thornton, etc. In the mid 50’s it became a blending of several music styles including country, blues, soul. rockabilly, gospel, etc. During the 50’s and 60’s most hit music was labelled “Rock & Roll.” In the 70’s Rock & Roll began to fragment into sub genres such as disco, punk and new wave and has continued to do so ever since. By the 70’s and 80’s guitar rock and classic rock had hijacked the term and the other sub-genres were labelled as such . So today most people think of Rock & Roll as loud guitars and banging drums. Personally, I prefer the broader definition and welcome all artists and styles that had a hand in influencing the original spirit of “Rock & Roll.”
I appreciate that Brian. But Dolly Parton, Dionne Warwick, Lionel Richie – amazing talents, but do they fit your definition?
Yes, Lionel Richie and Dolly Parton meet the definition narrowly. Warwick’s nomination really does not. I’m with you on that one.
For most rockers, I think all three of them have always been highly regarded but not a part of the daily diet. That why HoF status seems like such a stretch to so many.
Willie Nelson has been eligible since 1987. If I was going to vote for a Country Artist, it would’ve been Willie. I’m with you … Dolly is Amazing. She’s not a Rock Artist. Carly Simon is … as stations that were ABC’s FM Rock played her and James Taylor. I agree with you Fred. Love the RRHOF&M, and visit often as it’s in my home area, but Rock has to mean Rock. Even as the genre evolves. If it wasn’t Rock before … why is it now?
Well-said, my friend. I think people just want a nomination process where they can look over the list and say, “OK, I get this.” Or at least most of it.
Right, neither are my cup of tea, but I think some of Dolly Parton’s early works like Coat of Many Colors and Jolene exhibit some of the ethos of Rock & Roll and were obviously very influential. Likewise, Richie’s work with Commodores does as well. I would assume many of the naysayers are only considering their eras of mass popularity which I would agree is not worthy of being nominated for. I also think that if either of these artists had risen to popularity in the 50’s rather than the 70’s and ’80’s there would be much less nose turning. Again, it’s all about perspective. Either way, being nominated is much different than being inducted. In my opinion, both are worthy of the nomination and being up for discussion. But I think there are better choices for induction.
Brian, I appreciate the thoughtful response. See my response to Mike R. Thanks for commenting.
To repurpose the name of a group that will never get into the RRHOF, “Right, said Fred”. The RRHOF is heading toward irrelevance.
But I am NOT too sexy! Thank you, Dr. Ed!
I agree with you, next year, KC and the Sunshine Band, Lorne Green for Ringo and Donna Summer. They were played constantly on WRIF, WCSX and WLLZ.
But seriously, why are Jethro Tull, Spirit or King Crimson constantly snubbed?
And the beat goes on, Mark.
Nothing says Rock and Roll like Dionne Warwick.
But do you know the way to San Jose?
Nominators are mostly writers, critics, and pretentious pontificators who rarely ever have to pay to get in…
However they always seem to end up on the guest list.
Weird the way that works.
I tend to turn my social media off on nomination day, because the masses of people who just don’t get that “rock and roll” and “rock” are NOT necessarily the same thing drive me nuts.
(I do understand that Joe Sixpack does not make that distinction, and there probably should be some accounting for that…but occasionally Joe Sixpack is just wrong, and this is one of those times.)[;
Thanks for commenting, Brian.
Great post. Nominations are always too weird anymore. I’ve given up on it until REO Speedwagon gets nominated (it may not be until 2040 with the Arianna Grande class lol). I love Springsteen but if he’s one of the nominators, I’m mad at him!!
It’s a crazy process, Robert. Thanks!
The only way — and it’s a BIG stretch — Dolly is a RRHOF nominee is if you count the influence she’s been for performers across many genres.
The White Stripes covered “Jolene”. Whitney Houston wouldn’t have the biggest hit of her career – “I Will Always Love You” — without Dolly (and that isn’t “rock and roll” either).
Perhaps it would be best if the institution were renamed the Pop Music Hall Of Fame, but I won’t hold my breath for that.
Don, that is a BIG stretch (although a great effort). And that’s part of the issue here. The average fan just doesn’t understand several of these nominations. Thanks for engaging on this issue.
Fred, I could hardly agree with you more. Dolly Parton is an AMAZING artist and person. I think she’s also in the Country Music Hall of Fame and a member of the Grand Ole Opry. Right where she needs to me. If they want to use a broad stroke, start a new HOF. If “Music” is too lame, look up another word. The R&R HOF should be just that. Rock.
Your comparison to BB HOF and FB HOF are spot on. Until I see Van Halen and Pat Benatar in the CM HOF, all other arguments for this are ridiculous. They can pontificate all they want on how rock was born from country etc, but it comes down to the musicians and the music they make. You will NEVER hear Van Halen and Alan Jackson on the same format, consistently. Because the music is DIFFERENT. Why pile them into the same HOF?
Tammie, always great to hear from you. It’s a crazy scene every hear the Rock Hall releases their list. Thanks for the comment.
Like many institutions the RRHF is trying to be too many things to too many people. Inclusiveness can be a wonderful thing, but painting rock and roll with such a wide brush only waters down what makes it special.
I think lots of people feel that way, Kurt. Thanks for chiming in.
I can’t help but wonder if part of their calculus is that every time they nominate people that don’t belong/snub ones that do, they get a lot of media attention – including this blog. Once a year they have fleeting relevance.
When there is no criteria for making a list, what value is there to that list. Years ago, I remember a fun conversation with you about using the phrase, “it doesn’t have to be old to be a classic”. My question was, what does it have to be to be a classic? If it doesn’t have to be rock and roll to be rock and roll (as idiotic as that sounds, its pretty much the nominating committee’s point), what does it have to be? And if there isn’t ever going to be an exhibit with Dolly Parton’s old costumes and wigs, why would they induct her into the rock hall?
Stretching here, but there’s’ research that says people would rather work for a bad manager than an inconstant one. The Rock Hall is a museum’s version of an inconsistent manager.
Precisely, Bob. You got to Disneyland, you know what the place stands for and what you’re going to get. Same with Cooperstown. Or even Cirque du Soleil. With the RnRHoF, you never know what the new year will bring. And as you point out, attention and buzz (even the derisive kind) seems to be the expectation.
Seems every year there is a collective gasp at the so called, “Rock & Roll” hall of fame list. The bottom line is there needs to be a competitor to their venue. A very clearly defined set of rules and inclusion of both writer’s and the public in the selection of artists. Heavy Metal got so feed up that they have their own award show. A MUSIC hall of fame with different categories for induction makes far more sense. This would allow ALL genres to share in the people’s praise and love of music. The R.R.H.O.F. is deeply corrupted and run by a person who wishes to fatten their wallet at the expense of the artist’s themselves. THAT’S OUTRAGEOUS! BOYCOTT THE R.R.H.O.F.! I refuse to pay any attention till they clean up their act.
I am not in it because I have a favorite band or even genre that is perennially snubbed by the Rock Hall. Politics always plays an unhealthy role in these awards organizations. I’m just asking for a rational, logical approach to nominations the average fan can understand and (hopefully) live with. If you’re going to welcome the masses to your museum, the least you can do is provide them with a fair, transparent system of judging. Thanks, Mike.
TEN YEARS AFTER ??? Why are they not in the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame ?
Everybody’s got their poster band for snubbing by the Rock Hall, David. Welcome to the club.
Rock and roll hall of fame says it all ,if you want country country hall of fame same with rap. I’ve heel to the RRHF,it was awesome but how in the hell did Taylor Swift get in there are bands that have been making music for decades . I don’t understand why rock always gets pushed aside for every one else .
Thanks, Karen.
Sam Phillips wanted to use the music of the blacks to bridge the considerable divide between black and white society. There, in a nut shell, is the ‘diversity’.
John Hammond did the same in the late 30’s by bringing Pete Johnson, Albert Ammonds and Meade Lux Lewis to Carnegie Hall, thus sparking the boogie woogie craze.
Muddy Waters gave us the back beat, Howling Wolf gave us the showmanship.
Chuck Berry gave us call and response featuring incredible lyrics. These are some of the founders of Rock and Roll, which include many more ‘unknowns’ to the public, who were instrumental in the development of the genre.
To the guys in SEAsia, rock and roll was the ‘oldies’ of which we craved, reminded us of home and gave us hope of someday returning.
It was a purely American Art form from the South and is a testament to the human spirit by making something wonderful from something as terrible racism.
Rock and Roll passed on in ’67 when AOR was established and songs took on a political nature and bogged down in overproduction. It was disc jockeys like Dewey Phillips and John R. who helped drive the music. Now it’s picked out by computer into a mindless, endless loop of mediocrity.
The HOF is a joke. Leave it in Cleveland. One should be established in Memphis featuring all of the known and unknowns (to the general public), and let Cleveland have the posers.
I was a jock for 50 years, but please don’t tell my mother. She thinks I play piano in a bawdy house.
Randolph, you make a great case for rethinking how we conventionally view the origins and evolutions of what we call “rock ‘n’ roll.” And as for the Cleveland part, don’t get me going. How about we let Memphis and Detroit share the honors? As for your mother, your secret is safe with me. Thanks so much for this comment.