I was hanging out with my friend, Haley Jones, at a conference a few weeks back. In this phase of her career, Haley is an accomplished exec at Nielsen Music – their Director | Music – helping the media community understand the impact of music and radio on audiences, as well as on each other.
But before Haley took on this role a few years back, she was an accomplished program director, working in the Triple A/Rock family in markets that include San Francisco, San Diego, and Austin. These days, she’s seeing the world from a fascinating perspective through analytics, but her heart still lies in the radio business.
We got to talking about improving roles for women in radio. Females are well-represented in sales, of course, and are increasingly running the show out of their corner offices in companies that include Hubbard, Beasley, Cumulus, NRG, Cox, and others.
But behind the mic, progress is still too slow, but becoming more apparent with each passing year. Our new AQ2 study of radio talent reveals that only one in four radio personalities are women.
But as Haley reminded me, female programmers are still very few and far between – 11% overall – the same as it’s been the past dozen years. “It’s always been a boy’s network,” she asserted. And she’s right.
Even at radio’s best companies where women have made impressive strides, PDs are still mostly male. And we are very likely in that zone where many perceptive and realistic women in radio have concluded the pathway to programming may not be worth the hassle or the struggle, given historical trends suggesting they’ll not have much of a shot.
So, that means it’s on those of us in positions that can get things done to reassess and rethink why this is – and what can be done to address it. And because there may be fewer and fewer women who now strive to wear P.D. stripes, that means active mentorship is the way to go.
I was reminded of the value of mentoring last week when I heard the news of Cokie Roberts’ passing. If you’re “into” news, politics, or public radio, you know her backstory. Cokie came from political royalty – her parents both served in Congress – but she took a journalistic path, eventually ending up at the ground floor of National Public Radio and later, ABC News.
Along with her sidekicks, Nina Totenberg, Linda Wertheimer, and Susan Stamberg, Roberts became known as one of the “Founding Mothers of Public Radio,” opening the door to women starting way back in the 1970s. In the many eulogies and remembrances that have flowed over the past several days, Cokie Roberts’ mentorship of women, in particular, as been much discussed and lauded. In a recent tribute, Nina Totenberg wrote the following about Roberts:
“And of course, she was the voice of women. She understood injustices large and small. She understood the hurdles that blue- pink- and white-collar women face — in raising and providing for a family, in dealing with husbands and bosses. She understood the whole balance of life.”
And mentoring women in journalism was a focal point.
So, here we are in 2019, at a time when broadcast radio could use more than a few good women at the PD desk. Haley told me about an initiative 
MIW (Mentoring and Inspiring Women In Radio) has launched to mentor aspiring program and music directors.
Sadly, the deadline has passed for this year’s program. But its mere existence is evidence of proactivity that should inspire other industry organizations whose focus in on growing the next generation of radio pros.
I’ve had involvement – formal and informal – in Conclave, the National Radio Talent System, and Public Radio Program Directors – all groups with great leadership and big goals. Perhaps there’s a collaborative process, along with MIW, of course, to scale these efforts, expanding mentorship.
But a recent story in the Harvard Business Review – “What Men can do to Be Better Mentors and Sponsors to Women” – outlines the ways that men can make a real contribution to helping women get ahead.
Rania Anderson and David Smith say that mentoring is a contribution men can make to women in the workplace. But it is advocating for them that is the difference-maker.
It starts with identifying potential programming talent, even if the woman in question has no hands-on experience as a music director or APD.
The authors suggest putting women in “stretch roles” – high profile opportunities (like a station concert, festival, or other big event) that can show off their talents. They note the best of these “stretch roles” involve risk, profit or loss, client interaction, and other elements that provide a true test of performance for the station.
Of course, success depends on connecting the female protégé with mentoring help, time, and financial resources to help them gain the necessary skills.
A key conclusion?
“There are plenty of men who want to do what’s best for their businesses and employees. We find that sponsorship and advocacy make the biggest difference.”
While mentoring can be effective, it is also about going to bat for women, especially in organizations where women PDs are a rarity – or non-existent.
That means mentors using their influence – in a public and visible way. As Anderson and Smith point out:
“We regularly see mentors who support their mentees privately but are reluctant to advocate for them.”
That resonated for me – as it might for other men in power positions. Giving our time is one thing – using our pull to help a woman get that shot is another.
We keep talking in radio about new content creation, and the ongoing need to develop new programming, new formats, and new innovations. Perhaps part of the problem is that it’s the same old guys at the helm – as programmers, operations directors, and yes, consultants.
I’m in. I’m happy to work together with any – or all – of the aforementioned groups to facilitate change.
Yes, mentoring is good.
Advocacy? Better.
Congrats to Christine Travaglini, President of Katz Radio Group, on her 2019 MIW Trailblazer Award, and to the Kidd Kraddick Show’s Kellie Rasberry on her 2019 MIW Airblazer Award.
Jacobs Media has consistently walked the walk in the digital space, providing insights and guidance through its well-read national Techsurveys.
In 2008, jacapps was launched - a mobile apps company that has designed and built more than 1,300 apps for both the Apple and Android platforms. In 2013, the DASH Conference was created - a mashup of radio and automotive, designed to foster better understanding of the "connected car" and its impact.
Along with providing the creative and intellectual direction for the company, Fred consults many of Jacobs Media's commercial and public radio clients, in addition to media brands looking to thrive in the rapidly changing tech environment.
Fred was inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame in 2018.
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I feel that it is really important to recognize that some of the best programmers in the business are women, and that they had to be better than the best to achieve what they have. Shelly Easton who oversees the Entercom stations in Philadelphia is one the most intuitive and passionate programmers I’ve ever met. Same for I-Heart’s Thea Mitchem, I hate like hell competing against her, she has made those stations better in her tenure. We are very lucky to have Michelle Stevens in New York as an APD (who already ran more stations in her career than most male programmers ever will) and Jayn in San Francisco…both will be great programmers of their own stations when they choose. Nikki Nite in Austin not only does a fantastic job as a cluster programmer, she oversees the AC format at Entercom. These programmers have all achieved stardom because they were given a chance. Is there a potential Shelly Easton or Thea Mitchem in your company? If not, find them!
Great choices all, Jim. Thanks for surfacing them for this blog post. I’d love more to choose from. 🙂
Yes! Couldn’t agree more with this, Jim Ryan. Thea Mitchem is a formidable leader in the industry, and I’m glad I don’t have to compete against her. 😉 And I’m very enthusiastic about our upcoming star female programmers at iHeart as well. Shout-out to some of my favorite women of iHeart: Meg Stevens, Jill Kempton, Taylor Jukes, Cara Hahn, Shauna Moran, Jules Riley, Gail Austin, Cindy Spicer, Carletta Blake, Tiffany Potter, Ashlee Young…and many more, though still not nearly enough.
(And thanks for writing and advocating, Fred)
I meant to add Ty Bailey and Aly Young to this list. And probably quite a few others.
Lainie, thanks for the note. And stay enthusiastic!
This is a great blog, Fred. I support the MIW initiative every year and I serve as a judge for the Gracie Awards. As a father of two powerful and strong young women, and having grown-up in a female dominant household, I am very aware of our industries shortfall when it comes to mentoring and growing female PD’s. Our industry has some amazing women leaders in programming, as Jim Ryan mentioned, and Cumulus is no exception. Mary Berner, as Cumulus CEO, changed the culture of a company and (dare I say) is working with others to change the culture of an industry. We still have a lot of work to do.
We do indeed, Mike. I also have a daughter in the media (not radio), but I see some of the same barriers to success. There are amazing women in radio as you and Jim have noted, but yes, we have a long way to go. Thanks for the support and the kind words, Mike.
One of the limiting factors of moving women up the programming ladder has been years of, “Thanks I’ve already got a “girl” on the air, I don’t need another.” So, for years you might have had one woman out of three or four live dayparts…maybe 25% of the air staff. When the next program director is chosen (and who doesn’t look to their own staff first…) the pool of women candidates is small. Even looking outside our own teams it’s difficult to find women candidates. I’m lucky to get one or two female candidates from a pool of 30 applicants. Perhaps the next question to ask is: how can we encourage more women in the industry to APPLY? And how might we direct our encouragement and mentoring to that process?
Spot on, Beverlee, and it speaks to the dilemma we’ve created for ourselves. We’re going to have do more than just mentor women interested in becoming PDs. We’re going to have to seek them out. It’s a heavy lift, but that’s how big things change. TY for chiming in on this.
As a woman in broadcasting for over 30 years, I can tell you, things HAVE gotten better. Just not very much. You leave out paying us the same. My first PD job they made sure I got $100 a month more than my morning guy. Not the same as my male counterparts, just the most ON THE STATION. One thing you leave out are the small markets. Small markets are a great way to get into the business and learn from some very talented people who may have CHOSEN to stay in the markets where they like the quality of life. However, the longer I’m in them, the more tainted small markets are getting. I work for a pretty decent small market company. They may have women in “PD” and “OM” positions, BUT, we make ZERO decisions. The MEN above us have ALL the say. The only women in acutal decision making positions are in, of course, traffic and office. For example, I’m the winningest PD in my market. I am literally LAUGHED AT and ridiculed in programming meetings, and am told that when I’m asked to do the same things my male co-workers (whom I mentored) are doing, that it’s too hard for me. I could write an entire book on this subject, so I’ll stop. I think you need to look in ALL the directions when you do stories like this. Seriously, look at YOUR team. I love you guys, yet I’m always shocked how you advocate for women, and you have 1 working for you that’s featured on your page. Thank you for listening. Thank you for the good stuff daily.
Hey, Tammie. Thanks for the note. I feel your frustration coming right off my screen. I wish it wasn’t this way. As for my companies, there’s some missing data. Some in Jacobs Media have elected not to be pictured on the website. It’s too bad, but I respect their wishes. I would also tell you that jacapps (which lives in the same space looks different). As I explained to Abby Goldstein of PRPD last month, women are in key positions of power in that company. But no excuses. We can do better and we strive to, especially for a companies with under 30 employees.
I just KNEW you’d write back. After I re-read that, it looks like I’m starting a fight. I meant it to sound more like “even when we try…” Thank you for actually listening. And THANK YOU for the good info, every damn day! I don’t know if I could start my day without your e-mail.
All good. Appreciate you, Tammie.
And how many years was Rita Wilde PD at KLOS here in market #2?
If you have the instinct to program, it doesn’t matter which letter is under “sex” on your driver license. You’re right as usual, Fred. Management should be looking for that talent as much among the female staff as they do the males.
They might just find another Rita!
Thanks for that, KM. A lot of men in the radio biz would absolutely echo those thoughts.