When we hired Seth Resler about 100 days ago, I had podcasting in the back of my mind. Seth is an unabashed fan of podcasting, and is eager to see it grow. Our experience in public radio programming, research, and consulting suggested a big opportunity in this space, and hey, I listened to Serial, too.
It’s hard not to be excited about what’s going on with podcasting. As we watch Hubbard Radio partner with Norm Pattiz’s Podcast One, Midroll and Scripps Journal walk down the aisle, and guys like Steve Goldstein hang out his shingle, you’d better pay attention to this space.
Seth gets it, and in today’s guest post, he walks you through the logic circuit that will help make you a believer, too. This is an exciting opportunity for many people in radio – if we seize that moment and run with it. Here are the bread crumbs. – FJ
I’ve been a podcasting fan for a long, long time. Many years ago, when I first started accessing them, it was about mainstream media programs that were also released as podcasts. I could listen to Meet the Press or Wait Wait…Don’t Tell Me! on my schedule instead of waiting for them to air on TV or radio. (VCRs and DVRs had long allowed me to watch TV shows on my schedule; podcasting now allowed me to do the same with radio shows.)
Gradually, I moved on to shows that were designed first and foremost as podcasts, like Slate’s Political Gabfest and WTF. Oddly enough, some of these podcast hosts eventually migrated to mainstream media. The Political Gabfest’s John Dickerson just took over Bob Schieffer’s seat on Face the Nation, Emily Bazelon was a frequent guest on The Colbert Report, and WTF host Marc Maron now has his own show on IFC.
At the same time, we’re also seeing talent move in the other direction — particularly in the realm of public radio. Eric Nuzum (who will speak at our DASH Conference in November) just left NPR for Audible; Andy Bowers has launched Panoply; and Adam Davidson, co-host of Planet Money, also exited NPR recently. (If you want to hear more about folks like these, I highly recommend checking out Current.org’s The Pub podcast, where host Adam Ragusea regularly explores these comings and goings.)
But we’re not just seeing these moves in the public radio sphere. Adam Carolla (also appearing at DASH), who cut his teeth on the radio, now hosts his own very popular podcast. And on the management side, Steve Goldstein (another DASH speaker) exited Saga Communications to launch Amplifi Media.
But it’s not just the talent that’s moving to on-demand audio. Listeners are, too. Especially public radio listeners. We just wrapped up our massive Public Radio Techsurvey7 study where as you can imagine, podcasting was a major area of investigation.
As you can see on the chart below, 44% of the total public radio audience listens to podcasts and on-demand audio at least once a month. And the younger the audience, the more into podcasting they are. Three-fourths of Millennials have accessed a podcast in the last 30 days.
On top of that, podcasting has momentum. Nearly four in ten monthly podcast consumers say they’ve been listening to more of this on-demand programming in the past year. Once again, more than half of Generation Y listeners report listening to podcasts more.
So it’s time to take podcasting seriously.
(By the way, if you want to hear more results from PRTS7, Fred will be speaking about the study at the PRPD Conference at the end of the month. And you can find a few more slides with survey results here.)
Although I have been listening to podcasts for over a decade, and creating them for over five years, I’m constantly learning new things about the space. Serial was a big eye-opener for me for a seemingly simple reason: I had always assumed that podcasts had to be ongoing, like The Tonight Show or The Today Show. It never crossed my mind that a podcast could be closed-ended like a television miniseries, or produced in seasons like a scripted TV show. But Serial and Invisibilia prove that podcasts with a finite number of episodes could, in fact, be very successful.
Which is great news for radio.
A closed-ended series allows radio stations to dip their toe into the podcasting pool without over-investing resources in an ongoing commitment. Want to try podcasting? Do a 10-episode guide to the fall concert season, or a series of previews of your hometown team’s football games, or a short collection of interviews with local chefs. If the series is a huge hit, you can come back and do a second season. If not, you’re not on the hook to produce any more.
To that end, I have joined with All Access to create my own closed-ended podcast series. At the 2015 Worldwide Radio Summit in Hollywood last spring, I sat down with a wide range of leaders in the broadcasting industry for one-on-one interviews. I am now releasing those conversations as a podcast series. (Will there be a second season of this podcast? That depends on whether or not you listen to this one.)
One of the people I interviewed was Fred Jacobs, the author of this blog. (At the time, he was not yet my boss; I guess it just goes to show that if you want to land a job, you’ve got to give a good interview.) Fred and I spoke about everything from the birth of the Classic Rock format to the rise of podcasting to what the evolution of the car dashboard means for radio (which, of course, is what the DASH Conference is all about).
Listen below to the podcast episode:
You can also subscribe to the entire podcast through these channels:
You can also listen to the podcast through the All Access mobile app (built by our sister company, jācapps):
And if you missed last week’s interview with Emmis Communications CEO Jeff Smulyan, you can hear it here.
I’m a former radio jock experimenting with a closed-ended podcast series. And if I can do it, you can, too.
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We podcast 5 of our stations. The News/Talk gets 1,100+ podcast hits a month while the others are all 100 or less. Granted we’re small market, but I remember listening to Colin Cowherd on ESPN complaining about what a waste of time it was for HIM to do podcasts every day. I have to conclude his reach was minimal there – but it was mandated by the suits.
Call me a Luddite, but TV viewing is getting fragmented by their own “re-purposing” strategies. Advertisers reach is being diminished by that and “On Demand binge-watching” – are we SURE we don’t want to make over-the-air Radio a “Must Hear in Real Time” event??
When Coca-Cola brought out Diet Coke, it cannibalized the mother brand, not Diet Pepsi. Could podcasts of our morning shows be doing the same thing to our regular listenership? Certainly in our case, the impact of podcasts on our music brands is non-existant at this point – but pushing the podcast that doesn’t reach enough people to monetize seems like an exercize in futility at our level.
Anyone else want to weigh in on the thoughts of a Luddite, Dinosaur Radio Guy? My current opinion is the Podcasting Emporer has no clothes…..
I would argue that if Coca-Cola didn’t launch Diet Coke but Pepsi launched Diet Pepsi then Coca-Cola would have lost market share. Sometimes you have to launch new products just to maintain what you already have.
I also agree with Pamela’s comment below about podcasting content being unique to the medium. The most popular podcasts are not radio shows distributed on a different platform for the same reason a great TV show would not make a great radio program. Successful podcasts feature original content and/or supplemental content to an existing radio show, like the “10-episode guide to the fall concert season” Seth mentions, but not simply as another place to hear the same morning show.
We’re all still figuring out how to produce popular podcast content and make money off of it. 1,100 listeners may not sound like a lot but most local advertisers would be thrilled to get a third of those listeners to use a promo code on a website or print a coupon and spend money at their store.
Thanks for the response, Charlie.
The consumer has more power than ever before. Companies have to reach them the way they want to be reached. I have friends who I can only get ahold of by text message. I reach others by Skype or Facebook Messenger. Some prefer email. A few still like to get a call now and then. I don’t write letter to anybody anymore.
We’ve seen the same happen in TV. And soon, the same will happen with audio. Companies that aren’t willing to engage with consumers when and where they want do so at their own risk; they are likely to lose out to companies that will give consumers what they want.
Podcasting is still in its infancy. I don’t think it’s that the Podcasting Emperor has no clothes. I think he’s still getting dressed.
I would love to see radio embrace podcasting as not another medium to put out there existing shows and content, but to create new content that can’t be found on the radio dial. I think there is great potential with this to find a broader audience, experiment with some new ideas and launch some new talent.
Hi Pamela!
Yes, I agree. The opportunities for radio in podcasting go well beyond just repurposing the morning show. I think you’re right, this allows stations to spend more time on niches that deserve attention, but may not be right for the terrestrial airwaves. And yes, it’s a great place to experiment on a number of fronts: subject matter, format, talents, etc.
I agree with Pamela and Seth. If we’re going to podcast, it needs to be something other than a repeat of what was on the air. In a previous life, our morning show had the interns do a daily podcast – kind of “The Amateur Hour” – and I thought that had merit. Just hitting “podcast repeat” isn’t worth the effort – at least in small markets.
Thanks for adding to the conversation, Charlie.
We’ve got a local News/Talk station in our market that constantly promotes its podcasts; they haven’t uploaded one in three years. I think what radio has to do is recognize that podcasting doesn’t just mean “best of” compilations from your talk breaks and interviews during a given week. Podcasts are a non-linear opportunity to create something truly original and special, outside the confines of a clock and stopsets. We’ve become so far removed from creating compelling content in favor of creating “safe,” recyclable on-air content that I think many of us have to relearn what made radio exciting so long ago in order to make it exciting for listeners today. That’s what Serial did for me. It turned an old idea, which is exactly what a serialized radio show is, into fresh, addictive content. Not every podcast has to be Serial, but look how much it DIDN’T try to reinvent the wheel – it just turned the wheel in a new direction. In an age of on-demand video, that fact really speaks to the power of on-demand audio.
Creativity and innovation are key ingredients here. If radio thinks it can email in podcasts, we’re headed for disappointment. Thanks for the strong comment, Chris.
Thanks, Chris. Yes, Serial’s format was an eye-opener for me, too. Like you said, it wasn’t that it invented a new format so much as it updated an old one to make it relevant and compelling.
“Podcasting is still in its infancy. I don’t think it’s that the Podcasting Emperor has no clothes. I think he’s still getting dressed.”
I think Seth is right with the quote above.
At my shop, we look at Podcasting as a bellwether of three crucial RADIO trends:
1- Great communicators can cut through the noise no matter the platform. Ira Glass & This American Life, or Marc Maron and his WTF podcast aren’t successful primarily because of the podcasting format…they are successful because they are world-class communicators and storytellers.
2- Listeners increasingly respond to authenticity. More authentic voices, more authentic communication, more respect for not BSing the audience. The best podcasters communicate authenticity.
3- While content comes first (see point #1 above); Radio should look at overall consumer trends when evaluating the Podcasting platform. There is a growing audience expectation of control and personalization. The growth of streaming in music, YouTube, Netflix and DVR capability in video — these patterns all make a strong case for personalization and time shifting. It’s increasingly a “what I want, when I want” world…Podcasting answers that call, especially around news & talk.
PS We did a deal with Nerdist that shows our take on Podcasting:
https://slacker.com/r/NlnFT
Thanks, Jack! I’m looking forward to checking it out!
Jack, as you point out, jumping into the podcasting pool requires more than just closing your eyes, diving in, and hoping for the best. Strategic thought, a study of consumers tastes and desires, and an analysis of those who are excelling is a great place to start. Appreciate the comment.